OTC: How Jealousy And The Futile Search For “Being Cool” Corrupts The Media

“What do you think Bob Woodward would say about this piece?”
Kevin Kietzman, while criticizing The Star for printing Kent Babb’s Chiefs’ story because it was journalistically weak, 810 AM
GH: Kietzman, Danny Clinkscale and Frank Boal spent some time Tuesday discussing the journalistic merits of Kent Babb’s Chiefs’ story in last Sunday’s Kansas City Star. Kietzman was unimpressed with Babb’s work and that of his Star editors who allowed this story to be printed with what KK believes was tabloid-like journalism. Kietzman questioned why The Star would even allow this story to run. KK might want to check the history books on Bob Woodward. The Watergate scandal broke because Woodward and Bernstein and the Washington Post were willing to go to press with a story that was almost completely fed from an unidentified source named Deep Throat. I am thinking Bob Woodward would very likely tell Babb, “Job well done.”

“KC Tweeps: comical & petty for 810 to dismiss Babb story on Egoli. Remember when 810
made its name challenging King Carl and establishment?”
Jason Whitlock, Twitter
GH: Has 810 lost their little-station mojo that made them the bully of KC sports talk radio? Babb’s story has lifted the curtain off the reasons some members of the local media and their stations/newspapers/websites handle the news they report. We are beginning to see sides being taken and the motivation for why different reporters will align with one side of this Chiefs’ story or the other.

“I don’t think any newspaper article is going to reveal anything that isn’t already
whispered about around the league. The stuff that was in the article where the
people were quoted weren’t football people. I don’t know what other coaches and
scouts are saying about working at Arrowhead Stadium.”
Todd Leabo, 810 AM

“To try to dismiss that is kind of funny in a way but it’s mostly just ridiculous.”
Sam Mellinger, when asked by Nick Wright why some members of the local media are downplaying Babb’s story as no big deal and probably not true and dismissing it as just a few disgruntled employees, 610 AM
GH: Wright asked Mellinger to elaborate. Read on.

“My suspicion is that there are just different motivations. Some of it is jealousy
– ‘We didn’t have this story.’ Look, I’ve been jealous before too. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing. There are self-interests involved that are not – I don’t want to say pure – but are not targeted to best inform your readers/listeners. I think that’s been kind of an eye-opener for me. That’s kind of disappointing when we see things in that story that are sourced out.
We’re talking dozens [of people quoted].”
Sam Mellinger, on other members of the media dismissing Babb’s story, 610 AM

“Funny Peter King wrote today that what Haley alleges is a ‘federal crime.’ Hope for Haley’s sake he is not lying. Could get messy.”
Bob Fescoe, Twitter
GH: 810 is not the only media outlet downplaying Babb’s story. Bob Fescoe has taken Pioli’s side as staunchly as any 810 voice – so much so that his coworker Nick Wright has called him out on the air. Read on.

“Bob [Fescoe] is so far into Piloi’s pocket that he can tell you how much change he has! So
he has treated [Kent Babb’s story in the Chiefs’ work environment] just like
810 has.”
Nick Wright, 610 AM
GH: Comments like this from Nick Wright about another host on his own radio station haven’t happened in Kansas City since Jason Whitlock belched into a microphone. And not even Whitlock was as bold and pointblank and Wright in the way he called out Fescoe. Read on.

“Fescoe’s biggest take away today was Barry Switzer’s take on Dave Campo. The other radio station, I guarantee you if they are allowed to, is going to play a Charlie Weis teleconference live, instead of discussing the biggest Chiefs’ story of the year. Man, you either have a business relationship with the Chiefs or you just hope and pray that one day you and Scott Pioli can go golfing together.”
Nick Wright, 610 AM
GH: After Wright chided Fescoe about wanting to be Pioli’s golfing buddy, he then offered a public challenge to Fescoe to debate this Chiefs/Pioli topic on the air. This is unprecedented in local Kansas City sports talk radio. Can you imagine Soren Petro or Steven St. John going off like this on Kietzman on their shows? How improved would sports talk radio be in Kansas City if 810 allowed their hosts the freedom to critique the other hosts’ work? I will say this for 610’s hosts, I believe they deliver their honest opinions far more than the hosts on 810 – especially when it comes to agreeing or disagreeing with Kevin Kietzman. When one hosts owns the station and is the other hosts boss, it causes a lot of tongue biting.

“There is a balance between saying/reporting/writing things that you think the people you are writing about will like. ‘I can’t write this or this person won’t talk to me.’ There’s a balance between that and the other extreme, ‘Screw it, I’m just gonna blast and maybe I’ll get some attention.’ I think you have to be in the middle somewhere.”
Sam Mellinger, 610 AM
GH: Every person in the media who reports on people they see, know of have contact with at one time or another wrestles with the dilemma of; who is my master? Are you controlled by those you cover or your audience? I turn to one of my favorite film characters ever for the answer. Read on.

“You CANNOT make friends with the rock stars. That’s what’s important. If you’re a rock journalist – first, you will never get paid much. But you will get free records from the record company. And they’ll buy you drinks, you’ll meet girls, they’ll try to fly you
places for free, offer you drugs… I know. It sounds great. But they are not your friends. These are people who want you to write sanctimonious stories about the genius of the rock stars, and they will ruin rock and roll and strangle everything we love about it.”
Lester Bangs, on his advice to the young freelance writer William Miller in one of my all-time favorite movies of the 90s, Almost Famous
GH: Young William listened to Lester but like many journalists before him, he
was weak. He succumbed to the temptations of being buddies with the rock stars.
He turned to Lester Bangs once again for mentoring. Read on.

“Aw, man. You made friends with them. See, friendship is the booze they feed you. They want you to get drunk on feeling like you belong. They make you feel cool. And hey. I met you. You are not cool. That’s because we’re uncool. And while women will always be a problem for us, most of the great art in the world is about that very same problem.
Good-looking people don’t have any spine. Their art never lasts. They get the girls, but we’re smarter. My advice to you. I know you think those guys are your friends. You wanna be a true friend to them? Be honest, and unmerciful.”
Lester Bangs, Almost Famous
GH: Every writer, broadcaster and fan should imbed Lester’s words to memory.
They are that true.

“If Haley believes that the Chiefs are bugging rooms and/or tapping phones, Haley needs to provide chapter-and-verse evidence. If he’s right, people won’t simply lose their jobs;
they’ll possibly land in jail, and for good reason. The allegation is so inherently troublesome that we think the league should launch an immediate investigation.”
Mike Florio, NFL writer, CBSsports.com

“When I was a feature producer at HBO on INFL, we did a cover story on Pioli.  It was produced by another feature producer, who was a Pats fan, who came back from the shoot and talked about what a douche Pioli was for an entire week.  He literally couldn’t
believe what an asshole the guy is.”
OTC Email

“Charlie Weis – that is radio gold right there! That is all-world. I’ll be a fan of Charlie Weis’ news conferences. He can have them all the time and we’ll have them right here [on
Kevin Kietzman, after the conclusion of Weis’ press conference, 810 AM
GH: While many in the national media buzz about what Babb revealed about life inside Arrowhead, KK gushed about having Charlie Weis’ presser on live on 810. I guess it beats his grilling and cookie diet segments.

 and Twitter / greghall24 

About Greg Hall

Software guy who has been writing my Off The Couch column in KC newspapers, publications and websites since 1994. Has been bounced from some of the finest media establishments this side of State Line Road. Dad first and everything else second...and there are a lot of everything elses.
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43 Responses to OTC: How Jealousy And The Futile Search For “Being Cool” Corrupts The Media

  1. Zach says:

    Who ran a story about from an anonymous source about Mizzou being extended an offer from the big 10?

  2. txtigerfan says:

    810 doesn’t like the Babb story because KK and Boger run the same type of environment at that Radio Station. Fear and Dictatorship! We shouldn’t be surprised. I live in DFW and thank god I don’t have to listen to him. Greg’s OTC is just enough for me. Sports Radio down here is professional and they give good unbiased opinions with real Sources!

  3. Jeff Gelski says:

    Who played the rap song of somebody saying they were Larry Johnson and then bad-mouthing Carl Peterson?

  4. Harwood Benjamin says:

    I think the Babb story was not quite soup yet, but I believe the Star made the calculation that it wasn’t going to get any further on it, and if it didn’t get in print before the football season ended, it would become increasingly irrelevant. I’m intrigued about the Star’s decision to go after Pioli and the Chiefs–if ever there were a play-it-safe organization, it is the local newspaper. The editors/reporters must sense a real vulnerability in Pioli’s status to go out on a limb with this and risk having their access limited even more.

  5. renton says:

    Almost Famous is an amazing movie, but it was one of the best movies of the 00′s.

    • Greg Hall says:

      I stand corrected, renton. Almost Famous was filmed in the 1990s but released in September 2000. Interesting how many future stars were in that film — France McDormand, Phillip Seymour-Hoffman, Jimmy Fallon, Zooey D., Kate Hudson and Dwight from The Office. But the lead character, Patrick Fugit, never really took off.

      • Joe says:

        Don’t forget Jason Lee – love the “Plane Crash” scene. That kid’s (Fugit) acting was worse than horrible! Great movie though. JH

      • Smartman says:

        Jimmy Fallon is NOT a star. He’s a piece of poo still waiting to be fully disgorged from Lorne Michaels rectum.

      • brencado says:

        One of my all time favortite films. Wow… Kate Hudson and Zooey Deschanel. Those too were awesome….in their own very sexy way.

        Who could forget the bus ride and the group sing-along of “Tiny Dancer”? Simply awesome.

      • RickM says:

        You’re quoting Lester Bangs as if he was actually in the film, when those words were really spoken by Philip (one L) Seymour-Hoffman *playing* Bangs. I’ve read a lot by and about Bangs over the years and while he may have held those views, if he actually wrote those words I’d like a citation.

        Also, comparing this story with Woodstein/Watergate is classic overreach. They were confronting corruption at the highest levels of government; this is just a story about lousy working conditions at a mediocre Midwestern football team.

        As long as you’re going there, an unidentified source called “Curveball” conned the media into believing there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. The rest is history. Sometimes unverified sources can burn you.

  6. Joe says:

    If journalistic integrity is based on avoiding friendship with your subjects, Nick Wright has failed on every level. I don’t think KK has that problem, because no one would want to be friends with him anyway. JH

  7. Phaedrus says:

    So Nick gets mad at Fescoe for sniffing Pioli’s jock, but it’s ok for Nick to sniff every other jock on the Chiefs?

  8. donkeypunch says:

    Wright is such a hypocrite. Dude slams 810 for being business partners with the Chiefs, yet he will not respond to Frank White’s interview after he was fired out of fear of the consequences from the Royholes.

  9. nick says:

    “WHAT’S THE STORY?!!!!”

    Pioli’s an egotistical, anal-retentive, demanding, asshole of a boss?

    Maybe Babb can write 50,000 stories on other bosses in the world who who fit that description. Babb’s article is a big steaming pile. Pioli will get the Chiefs into the playoffs in the next couple years, and if not, he should be fired. If he’s not fired, THEN we can bitch and moan that his managing skills suck, and maybe start directing our ire at Hunt.

    The only thing in his story that WOULD be a story is if the alleged bugged phones and offices are true. But Babb offers ZERO proof or evidence of that. C’mon Babb….don’t just lightly float serious allegations out there with nothing to back it up. You’re gonna believe Haley, the joke of a head coach who seemingly purpously lessened our chances to win by campaigning for and starting Tyler Palko?! Ridiculous.

    • Joe says:

      Agreed. I am willing to bet that the 90% of the NFL team offices have similar characteristics. JH

    • brencado says:

      Pioli can’t be near as bad as a couple of my bosses. One threatened to cut my balls off with a Sawzall for gashing the sidewall on a new truck tire at construction site when I was in college. Another fired a fucker over the phone because he yawned too loudly during a conference call with an important client.

      Employees who can’t handle a guy like Pioli are pussies. I am willing to bet there are literally hundreds if not thousands of unemployed citizens who would give their left nut to be employed by the Chiefs in any capacity…and put up with Pioli’s BS!

      • N. B. Forrest says:

        Hey greaseball, where’ve you been hiding? Remember this quote? “Fuck Bama. LSU will kick your ass and we will to. “? Remember when you wrote that? What happened Dago? Bama won number 14 and you got to watch it on TV! Looks like your football knowledge is as worthless as the school you support. Enjoy your miserable little life in Big 12 country! You suck and your school is a joke. Roll Tide bitch. See your junky ass in October! 14! Suck it wop!

        • brencado says:

          I am not sure why you are so insistant on throwing Italian slurs at me. I am not Italian you dumbshit….or Mexican, or Polish, or Chinese or whatever your little mind can dream up. Yeah I watched the BCS game for about 30 minutes then had better things to do than watch that snoozefest. I was not alone either…as most of America flipped it off too. Good night loser.

          • KCMonarch says:

            Welcome to your new world Mizzou. Borderline illiterates hurling racial slurs and four letter words at each other over the outcome of a football game. You better get used to it. SEC!

          • N. B. Forrest says:

            Yeah, I’m not surprised you couldn’t appreciate watching how championship football is played. Funny thing about those ratings too, it was the second highest rating for any cable television broadcast in history. I’m kind of surprised that Missouri fans don’t appreciate that fact since tv sets are the only reason you are coming to the SEC. Finally, greaseball, I’m not at all surprised to see you haven’t mastered the subtleties of “to”, “too” and “two” as evidenced by your illiterate movie commentary from above. Par for the course for St. Pius grads I suppose. Missouri fans. What a joke.

          • brencado says:

            N.B. Forrest. I do believe that you are somewhat obsessed with me. Thanks to all of the attention and scrutiny that you have paid to my posts…I now know what it is like to have a fanatic or stalker. You are one strange dude. Thanks for the attention.

            BTW…for someone who is supposedly from Alabama…you sure hate Missouri and sure know alot about our area. I find that just a bit curious. I can’t wait to hear your hate filled reply.

            Have a nice evening you sad little fella.

        • Brencado says:

          I figured it out N.B. Forrest …you are actually this Alabama fan. Nice work guy….Roll Tide.


          • N. B. Forrest says:

            Hey homo, I love it that you are doing internet searches about teabagging. No surprise there. By the way, it seems I really don’t bore you as you have previously alleged. And you are right, I do know a bit about your area, dumbass. Successful people can afford to travel. I’ve heard all I need to hear about the dirty dago population of “Northtown”. Your (or as you are likely to spell it – you’re) part of town is a cesspool housing many, many gell haired, goatee sporting Missouri fans. Oh, and don’t forget to wear your tattered gold and black rugby shirt next time you attend a game up in Columbia! And to think, you didn’t even graduate from that sewer. Just like Jack Harry. Missouri apologist with no real ties to the school you support by attending a game or two (or is it to?) a year. You will always be a Missouri fan which is your lot in life. Pathetic really. You choose to support a school that has experience no championships in your lifetime. That makes me laugh. And I’m laughing at you. Loser.

          • N. B. Forrest says:

            experienced corrected

      • brencad0 says:

        Your ignorant obsession continues. I made a comment 2 weeks ago about LSU beating Alabama in the NC game (I was not alone in that belief) and all you can do is sling personal attacks. Now I ask you…who is the loser? Another idiotic reply from you will answer my question.

        BTW….I’d bet that I make more in a month than you make in a year…dumbass. How’s the trailer park there in beautiful Birmingham?

        • N. B. Forrest says:

          “I fully expect LSU to soundly beat Bama on a nuetral field to pound home the point that THEY are national champs.”

          “I bet you didn’t even go to college you backward hillbilly. ”

          “BTW…you talk a big game, but you are either 5’4″ and 400 lbs or 15 with acne. Either way you are a pussy. Fuck Bama. LSU will kick your ass and we will to.”

          “BTW….I’d bet that I make more in a month than you make in a year…dumbass.”

          Based on these bets/predictions, I ask only one thing of you. Will you please let me book every bet you make for the rest of your life? You are a fuckup Brencado. You didn’t get your job transfer down to Richardson and your fuckup 11 and 14 year old boys are never going to be athletes. Further, your dream of buying a house in the $200-250k range or all the way up to $300k in the Dallas suburbs tells me all I need to know about how much money you make. I tell you what Brencado, I will cut you a deck of cards for your entire net worth. Otherwise, crawl back in your little Bean Lake shithole.

          • N. B. Forrest says:

            Hey guy, I’m going to stop. This really is like picking on the handicapped. I mean even your name literally translated in the Portuguese dialect of Alentejan means “joked.” This is an unfair fight and I’ve probably piled on too much. Ohio didn’t work out, Texas didn’t work out and it was unfair of someone like me to make fun of your paltry housing budget as you try to better yourself by moving from Kansas City. Your embarassment is your embarassment and I should have just kept my comments about your ill-considered ideas to myself. I promise not to point out your inane commentary anymore. It just isn’t much fun to pick on you any longer. It’s too easy. And about your kids. I wish them luck. I really do. You should encourage them to get a good education wherever that might be. Maybe by the time they are in college, Missouri will have won a championship of some kind. Unfortunately for you, with your move to the SEC, it won’t be in football. Finally, you really should relax about how much money you make because it isn’t about how much you make, it’s how much you have. And don’t google teabagging anymore – you are on a watchlist now.

          • John Pelham Jeb Stuart Jeremiah Johnson says:

            Thanks Jeff in Virginia.

            BTW…I am very excited that Jeremiah Johnson is coming out on Blu-Ray as well.

            Interesting stuff on Vanguard News.

  10. Orphan of the Road says:

    The first thing you learn as a young writer, when you do sports you have no friends. Lester Banks spoke for all those who critique. Those who whored rose to the top or secured a safe haven for a short time. Sometimes a light shone in the forest. But not on sports radio KC.

    Whether you are sniffing jocks or business suits it show in your output. Nick Wright reminds me of Philadelphia’s Howard Eskin. Don’t know if Wright caddied for Haley or any of the Chiefs as Eskin did for Charles Barkley. Both carry some heavy water with their journalism & ethics.

    Who knows what rights you sign away when you sign a contract like Haley in today’s sports BUSINESS. Look at what comes out of teams like the Eagles. They have been a successful and frustrating franchise. Management says little, builds a new stadium which “forgot” to include water fountains and has a coach who has said 81 times I Have To Put The Team In A Better Position To Win.

    It is a story because it show what character the main players present and that which is believed. Control the information, protect the franchise at all costs, big business principles all around.

    If they were truly taping Haley’s phone, it opens a can of worms about what other businesses are spying illegally on their employees.

    Something for the hot stoves of winter…

  11. JP says:

    Remember when 810 was the little engine that could. It fought and defeated Don Fortune and his many partners on 980, and was cutting edge. Today, 810 is a shell of what it once was. It is boring radio, pure and simple. It has hosts who zone their programs with specific guests. Mainstream boring opinions, the fact that Frank Boal gets featured prominently, when he is the epitome of a host with nothing to say but the obvious, is telling.

    I am not as jazzed by this article as others. I think if you took the hood off most pro sports franchises, you would be shocked with what you found. I don’t doubt Pioli is an A-hole, but newsflash, most successful football people are A-holes. Look at Nick Saban, he will never be mistaken for a boy scout. Unless someone goes on the record and was harmed by the alleged bugging, this story will die a little. As for Todd Haley, the Jets have told him to get lost regarding a coaching job, and he will be blackballed by the NFL if he continues with these allegations, mark my words!!

    • Taxee says:

      Amen to the Frank Boal comment. Didn’t he publicly announce his “retirement” from both TV and radio some years back? And now he guests on the Border Patrol, The Program, Between The Lines, and I thought I heard him once on the Garage guys show? Not to mention all the commercials. He seems like a nice guy, but for someone who was a TV sports director for 20-25? years, its hard to believe he would need the money now.

      • Smartman says:

        Frank’s gotta keep the wife happy or she becomes the ex-wife and takes him to the cleaners. The chickens are coming home to roost at Casa del Boal. Hell hath no fury like a wife finding out you were no stranger to the strange.

  12. Guy Who Says What Others Think says:

    The way 810 handled MU’s exit from the Big XII, from the initial B1G fiasco all the way thru it’s eventual landing in the SEC, alienated all metro area MU fans almost to the man. Kietzman and his unnamed sources were dead wrong on the invite to join the B1G. He was even MORE wrong when he’d swear up and down daily on his show that there was NO ONE interested in Mizzou and no buzz around them leaving the Big 12, despite all the stories from Gabe and Mike DeArmond being “shoved down our throats”. Turns out, the DeArmond’s were right all along, and KK was once again proven to be a blathering idiot with ZERO credibility.

    • Cliffy says:

      I stuck with 810 and KK until he went off the deep end with the SEC rants. I didn’t mind him spouting his anti-Mizzou opinions but for the love of God, just stop making shit up.

      As for the Babb story, it is obvious Pioli is an asshole. If he’s been bugging phones I hope he gets slapped around. The other crap is corporate stuff that sucks but it exists. I’ve seen and experienced it.

      Haley reminds me of Quin Snyder. He wants to bring somebody else down with him. Quin came close to getting Alden canned by claiming he sent Gary Link to fire him. Haley would like nothing more than to bring down Pioli.

  13. UCrawford says:

    Just a quick point on King’s and others’ opinions on electronic surveillance. First, it’s not automatically a federal crime. It’s not even necessarily a crime at all. The Chiefs, if they were bugging their offices, have every right to do so…because it’s their own offices. Just like they have every right to monitor what e-mails go out. Just like it’s not a crime for them to monitor calls on company phones. Businesses have a right to monitor and control what goes on over communications they own.

    Now, once you start getting into them possibly bugging other peoples’ phones, it gets more tricky, but often those are issues for state law, not federal. So it’s hardly as cut-and-dried as “If they did it, they’ll go to jail”. It is, however, a completely dickish way to run a business if the stories about Pioli are true. I can’t imagine that people are optimally productive when the boss is crawling up their ass continually. And I can’t imagine that Pioli is optimally productive if he’s really spending his time micromanaging to the Nth degree and going on rants about candy wrappers. It would, however, explain why he’s got a mixed history on player evaluations…he’s too busy worrying about crap that doesn’t really matter.

  14. chuck says:

    Good stuff, Greg.

    Everything is anecdotal and he said, she said, but it sure is interesting.

    Petro nailed it though. He said no one would care if the Chiefs were winning.

    He made some references to Lombardi and what a huge asshole the guy was, no one cared, ‘they build statues of the guy”.

    If the Chiefs went 11 and 5 this year, Petro says the story would mean, in the famous words of Sgt. Schultz, NOTHING!!!

    Fun stuff to BS about though.

  15. A good story or a good piece of journalism is much like obscenity’s been previously described — I know it when I see it. And I saw it in Babb’s story. The fact that a bunch of these radio sports talking heads (who break very few original stories themselves) are all over Babb is probably a badge of honor for him.

  16. The KC Eye says:

    A couple things…

    I think writing off Babb’s story because of how common the abuse is in the non-football related Corporate America is a mistake. In fact, I’d argue it’s our ignorance to it (by stating, “This isn’t uncommon, it happens all the time”) that allows this bullshit to go on. Just because pricks like Pioli are allowed to run their operations with such lack of respect in the everyday world doesn’t make it right.

    Now, regardless of whether or not Pioli and/or others are committing crimes out at Arrowhead, the fact is, we spend a BOATLOAD of money on the Chiefs organization. There’s an issue here, regardless of who’s to blame, if current and former employees describe a dysfunctional work-environment where there are no open lines of communication & everyone feels as if they’re walking on eggshells all the time.

    As far as the jealous/compromised local media go … You think KK wouldn’t have told his listeners THE NEXT DAY if Haley sought him out to tell him he thinks Pioli is committing a felony??? He would have been banging that drum FOR MONTHS! He claims Babb presents zero evidence… Well isn’t KK a freaking journalist, too? Let’s get to the bottom of it — what are you waiting for Kietz?

    Truth is, out of all of them in the past (810, 610, or anywhere else) the most honest journalist has been Babb. He’s the only one who’s not completely sold-out one way or the other. The Chiefs are a complete freaking mess, it’s Pioli and Hunt’s fault, and Chiefs fans deserve to know about it. Thank goodness there is still some kind of true journalism going on in this world.

    • Rick says:

      Are you in bed with bottomlinecom on this issue? He agrees and even links to this site. I agree with both of you guys.

  17. TangoAlphaLima says:

    I find the Lester Bangs quotes interesting in light of recently viewing HBO’s Generation Kill mini-series, which chronicled a Rolling Stone writer, Evan Wright, as he rode with Marines during the attack on Iraq in 2003.

    In an roundtable discussion about the series, Wright states that it is a journalist’s job to “charm, then betray.” Almost the opposite of Lester Bangs. Bangs is preaching to be weary of getting too chummy with your subject, for fear of reporting through rose-colored glasses, whereas Wright is seemingly saying that the only way you’ll see the true side of your subject is to befriend it, then betray.

    I guess there’s some truth in both theories.

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