OTC: Bill Self & KU Win 10th Straight Big 12 Hoops Crown / Kansas Gonna Do What Kansas Do

“One of the greatest streaks in sports.”
Seth Davis, @SethDavisHoops, after Kansas defeated Oklahoma Monday night at Allen Fieldhouse to secure the Jayhawks tenth consecutive Big 12 conference title under Bill Self’s tutelage, Twitter
GH: When Coach Roy left Kansas I thought he took all that Big 12 dominance with him. Sure, Kansas would still be good under Bill Self but nowhere near Coach Roy good. I was kind of right. Kansas is BETTER under Bill Self. So much better that I am not so sure this streak is going to end this decade.

“2 well Coached teams tonight in Lawrence. The PHOG and Bill Self’s team a picture of consistency w/10 straight BIG12 Titles. Tremendous run!”
Tim Brando, @TimBrando, Twitter

“Champ10ns is actually pretty clever.”
Carrington Harrison, @cdotharrison, commenting on a sign held by a fan insider Allen Fieldhouse, Twitter
GH: I half expect to see somebody wearing a “Champ10ns” tee-shirt when I head out for lunch today.

“Students start Rock Chalk chant with :24 left and KU up six. Bill Self says ‘Not Yet!’ Chant stops.”
Jim Marchiony, @JMarchiony, KU associate athletic director, Twitter
GH: I am not surprised at all that Bill Self has the power of Mordor’s Sauron over the KU student section but it does tickle me a bit that he pays attention to when the fabled “Rock Chalk” chant begins during a game. Sitting at home last night I was curious as to why I never heard it. Now I know.

“Self flashes a 10 on the way out to a huge roar.”
Josh Klingler, @joshklingler, Twitter
GH: How do you not like Bill Self? His toupee was a little askew last night but the guy has done more for Kansas basketball than anyone who has ever stepped foot on KU’s picturesque campus. Naismith? He invented the game but he was a lousy coach. Danny Manning? He’s number two on my list. Roy Williams sits third. It’s a good debate.

“Roy Williams won an amazing 9 Big Eight/12 titles in 15 KU seasons. Bill Self has won 10 in 11 years.”
Blair Kerkhoff, @BlairKerkhoff, Twitter

“Bill Self once again has more Big 12 titles (10) than home losses (9).”
Andrew Curtis, @AndrewCurtis24, KU journalism student, Twitter
GH: That stat is almost indigestible. It’s like trying to eat concrete through your nose. No one does that.  

“How remarkable is Kansas’ 10 straight Big 12 titles? No other college hoops program has a current league title streak longer than 3.”
Jeff Eisenberg (@JeffEisenberg, CBB writer for YahooSports.com, Twitter

“10-straight for the Beakers? Meh.”
Brian Hank Haenchen, @Brian_Haenchen, MU fan and aspiring sports media person, Twitter
GH: I have a feeling Hank speaks for many Mizzou fans out there.  

“Wichita State has had a heck of a season. But you can’t make a case for Shockers to be a one seed over Kansas, Arizona, Syracuse or Florida.”
Jon Rothstein, @JonRothstein, Twitter
GH: Sure, you can make a case for it but you can just as easily build a case against it. The Shockers will get their due in the seedings. It will be up to them to repeat their run to the Final Four. I think they are very capable of doing just that.

“I call it my ‘net worth’ question. If you had to put your net worth on one team to win it all, which would u choose? Could do worse than KU.”
Seth Davis, @SethDavisHoops, Twitter
GH: Florida seems to be everyone’s pick as the best team in college hoops. They have a win over Kansas and have destroyed just about everybody in the SEC. My top picks at for the Final Four at this time are Florida, Wichita State, Kansas and San Diego State.

“This is one of the most fascinating KU teams I can remember. Such an interesting mix.”
Bob Lutz, columnist for Wichita Eagle, @boblutz
GH: There seems to be a new star or at least a different star each week for Kansas. Naadir Tharpe has ridden the roller coaster like maybe no other this season in displaying his best and worst sides. Last night against Oklahoma he looked like an All-Conference point guard down the stretch. He is one of the reasons KU is not going to relinquish this Big 12 streak any time soon.

“Naadir Tharpe has scored eight of Kansas’ final 13 points. And he’s the biggest ‘concern’ for the Jayhawks.”
Jeff Borzello, @jeffborzello, CBB writer for CBSsports.com, Twitter

“Certainly the (Big 12 is the) deepest conference in the country. No question about it.”
Brent Musburger, ESPN
GH: The Big Ten in on line three, Brent. Oh, and they’re wrong.  

“I’m not sure if I’d have the guts to pass on Andrew Wiggins at No. 1. So much talent. So much potential. Plays so effortlessly.”
Chris Mannix, @ChrisMannixSI, Sports Illustrated writer, Twitter
GH: Wiggins just turned 19. When will he be at the age of 25? Wherever it is I am betting he will be a whole lot of fun to watch – and it will cost plenty to do so live.  

and Twitter @greghall24

About Greg Hall

Software guy who has been writing my Off The Couch column in KC newspapers, publications and websites since 1994. Has been bounced from some of the finest media establishments this side of State Line Road. Dad first and everything else second...and there are a lot of everything elses.

55 Responses to OTC: Bill Self & KU Win 10th Straight Big 12 Hoops Crown / Kansas Gonna Do What Kansas Do

  1. Jim says:

    Could you make a case for WSU not being a number 1 seed based upon their schedule/league? Sure. But, undefeated is undefeated. Don’t care if you are playing in a YMCA league or The Valley. That’s some impressive stuff. I believe the ‘Hawks are locked into a number 2 seed UNLESS the Shockers don’t finish undefeated. If all goes according to Hoyle, we’ll get the match-up everyone has cussed and discussed all year. How cool with that be? RCJH!

  2. Richard Cranium says:

    Aspiring Sports Media Person? Meh

    • Fred Flintstone says:

      If the Aspiring Sports Media Person aspires to be a sports media person in KANSAS City, he’d better dump (or hide) his hatred/envy/jealousy for KU. There’s too many “Beakers” in this city, for him to make it here with anything less than admiration for Kansas basketball. Ask KK, Soren, Susan St James, et al.

    • Mike says:

      I hope he’s not accruing a ton of student debt to be an ‘aspiring sports media person’. Those loans were a bitch to pay down several years ago. I can’t imagine what it is now, especially in a field where compensation figures don’t rise a whole lot year-over-year. Of course, if his folks are loaded, and paying his way through school, it completely renders my point moot.

  3. Smith says:

    Wichita State would get their asses handed to them by KU. They haven’t even sniffed a frontcourt like KU’s this year. Be careful what you wish for there Shockers.

    • Kyle says:

      WSU is very good. They are experienced and their best attribute is that they know how to win. If KU played their best game against them, no WSU would not have a chance. But WSU is very good at making teams not play their best game, and KU has shown a propensity for allowing teams to do that. KU could easily win it all this year or lose in the first round. Neither would surprise me. A matchup with WSU in the tourney would be a dogfight to the end.

      • Smith says:

        It would arguably be the biggest game in the modern era of Wichita State basketball. Even bigger than their Final Four game vs Louisville in 2013, because this one would be against their own personal big bad wolf.

  4. JimmyD says:

    I’m not a KU guy at all but why the continued low-brow humor making fun of Self’s hair? Obviously one of your favorite beaten dead horses Greg. And I’m pretty sure it isn’t a toupee but plugs

    • Fred Flintstone says:

      Agree with Jimmy D. What difference does it make if anyone has a toupee, contact lenses, teeth whitener, or Botox to make their appearance enhanced? You make fun of his toupee, but say nothing about his “vanity” for wearing contacts? What’s the difference? Just an easier way to hate is all I see.

    • Zed says:

      Its pretty amazing what they can to now for hair. You can hair transplants, plugs etc. Its expensive. i know a few guys that have done it and it is amazing after a year. If you got the money why not.

    • Phaedrus says:

      Have you seen a picture of Greg? ;) To paraphrase Costanza, he’s just jealous that Bill WAS bald.

    • artemmis says:

      you think Self is into but plugs?

    • Kansas Marine says:

      Agree with JimmyD. And last time I checked Greg Hall was closer to combing-over than combing his hair.

  5. Glorious Uproar says:

    It’a not a good look for the Big 12 that the same team can win the conference 10 years in a row.
    Sure, KU is always a great team, but you would think that ONE team every once in awhile would win it outright. “Yeah, but the conference has the greatest RPI in the history of history.”

    Maybe that means RPI is a bullshit stat. Everybody predicts Kansas to win it every year, and they do. That’s bad for the conference.

    • Smith says:

      Bad how?

      The Big 12 is freaking tough. Even the bottom of the league is tough. The quality of coaches in the Big 12 has got to be the strongest in the country. It isn’t like KU just walks through everyone every year.

      Every conference in the country that has a blue blood program gets won by that blue blood nearly every year. It is what it is. That’s why people storm the court when they do beat those schools.

      And RPI is not a bullshit stat. RPI is why everyone said the Chiefs were overrated at 9-0. RPI is why a lot of people think Floyd Mayweather’s undefeated record is misleading. RPI is why Wichita State is not ranked #1 right now.

      • Glorious Uproar says:

        Since 2005

        3 different ACC schools have won the outright regular season title – Duke, UNC, Miami

        4 in the SEC – UK, LSU, Florida, Tennessee

        6 in the Big 10 – Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State

        4 in the PAc 10 – UCLA, Arizona, Washington, California

        Not a lot of blue bloods in this list.

        • Jim says:

          Duke, UNC, UK, Indiana, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, UCLA & Arizona not blue bloods? Ummmm, OK. You left out Big 12 conference champions in that same period. That list would include Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas & Kansas State. So, what’s your point? That there’s been more/different champions than the ACC or the same number of champions as the SEC and the PAC 10 for the Big 12 in that same period?

          • Glorious Uproar says:

            outright champions, as I stated in the initial post. I was not including ties.

            Only one Big 12 school has been the outright champion since 2005.

            Depends on what your definition of a blue blood is.

    • Zed says:

      Bill Self was at Illinois for three years he finished 1st, 1st and a 2nd. The players/recruits/program he left for the next coach won the Big 10 the next two years .
      Self might not win 10 in a row but he would be in top one or two of any conference.

  6. Gavin says:

    My vote for the guy who has done more for KU basketball than any other goes to Phog Allen. He was done coaching before I was born, but he laid the foundation that is still paying off even today. It’s no secret that we KU fans are in love with our own history and will happily tell anyone about it, bot that history really starts with Allen and without him you can make a pretty strong case that basketball never becomes anything beyond something to do indoors when the weather outside is shitty. Certainly it doesn’t resemble the sport and institution it currently is, even if it does evolve beyond its humble Naismithian roots.

    After that, I would probably go with Wilt Chamberlain. He wasn’t KU’s first great player, but he was probably KU’s first true “superstar.” And I really think it could be a tossup between Larry Brown and Roy Williams. Roy certainly sustained a lengthy period of excellence, but Larry Brown revived what had become a moribund program. Without Larry Brown, chances are pretty good that Roy Williams isn’t able to do anything he did and, not for nothing, but Larry Brown did manage to get the national championship that eluded Roy his entire time here.

    • Richard Cranium says:

      For the good that Larry Brown did, there was the equal bad. I wouldn’t have Larry Brown in the top 10 let alone 5. Old Crazy Max is probably higher on the list of contributors than Larry Brown (if you weigh both the pros and the cons)

      • Gavin says:

        I see your point, I do. And I have friends who agree with you. I just don’t think that the bad outweighed the good. Two final fours, a national championship, and a player of the year/tourney MOP. The probation and tournament exclusion was bad, obviously, and we all wish it hadn’t happened, but I’d take the trade (not that we had to have the bad to get the good, but you see what I mean), especially at that point.

        As for Max, I love the guy too, but I don’t think that KU was made better because of him. Or, perhaps more accurately, I don’t think that his absence would have left a void we’d have felt. If we didn’t have Allen, Chamberlain, Brown, Williams or Self we would be definitively in a different position and almost certainly a worse one. But if Max had left KU for a different job or just stopped doing it in 1965, would the program be any worse off? I doubt it. Although he certainly is an excellent font of historical knowledge to have around.

    • kylerohde says:

      Yep, there’s no question it’s Phog. The only question about Allen should be: is he the most important single person in college basketball history? Considering he built one of the top three programs of all time and coached the two guys that built the other two (UNC – Dean Smith and Kentucky – Adolph Rupp), there’s a pretty convincing argument there. And I am not just saying that with my crimson & blue sunglasses on.

      Gavin, your logic is sound, though I’m not sure about Brown. But considering the program’s mediocrity, by our standards, under Owens (heck, KSU was just about an equal program in the 70′s), it’s hard to argue against it. Without Brown hiring him as a GA, maybe we don’t end up with Bill Self 17 years later as head coach. Think about that!

      • Gavin says:

        I’m not an expert on North Carolina basketball history, but they were winning championships before Dean Smith ever got there (Frank McGuire was the coach that beat KU when Wilt Chamberlain started and I think Dean Smith may have been on the bench for that game) so I don’t know how much Dean Smith built versus how much he expanded, but it’s a good point. Without Phog Allen, the game certainly is a different animal than it is right now.

        • kylerohde says:

          You’re right, Gavin, they were…but it sure seems like it took off to another level under Dean. Just scan the right column’s list of accomplishments here – seems like a huge majority after 1961. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Carolina_Tar_Heels_men%27s_basketball

  7. Johnny Utah says:

    For all of KU’s great history, the glory years are right now. This sustained success is unreal. We should enjoy it.

  8. Jimminess says:

    “Bill Self once again has more Big 12 titles (10) than home losses (9).” As a die hard, but honest, Mizzou fan, this pains me, but Good Lord, that’s ridiculous. I for one am glad we left Self waiting at the airport and hired Quin instead–we dodged a real bullet that one. I’m comforted by the liklihood that had Self had got the job, he would have already been hired away by now and we’d probably still have Haith.

  9. JP says:

    Congrats to the Hawks on 10 in a Row!!! That is impressive, no matter how you slice it. March is coming, Spring will be here soon and KU wins another Big XII title. That and taxes are due April 15.

    Greg, you missed the funniest barb flung at KU. It was from none other than Mad Jack Harry. His Sunday sports segment he made the comment that KU must be “getting tired of winning all the time”. He referenced that it has become boring. Maybe it’s boring to Jack and the haters, but it never gets old or boring. Seeing new players adapt to Self’s system and bring winning basketball to KU never gets boring. If anything, it’s getting more fun through the years.

    Bill is a great coach. He has definitely raised the bar on the KU program. I agree that Phog Allen is the Godfather, but Brown, Williams and now Self have each taken the program to the next level.

  10. JS says:

    We have an interim Athletic Director to thank for hiring Bill Self. Drue Jennings who headed KCP&L for years hired Self. I am thankful Self knew what KU was all about from being on Larry Brown’s staff or he might not have come. Coming after Roy took a lot of guts. Not many people could have come in and taken it to a different level. Kudos to Self and his program. He seems to be actually recruiting better and better as the years progress. I would like to see him to stay until he ends his coaching career at this point. That would be awesome but not really expected.

    • Gavin says:

      I was having that very discussion last night with a friend while I was at the game and I was making a similar point. Drue Jennings is the unsung hero. I still don’t know how he could go out and get a hot commodity to agree to take a job replacing a revered figure like Roy Williams after all the sturm and drang of Roy saying he was staying and then leaving just a few years later and then dealing with the mess of Al Bohl and managing to persuade Bill Self to take the gig while all parties concerned had no idea who was going to be the AD in six months. Simply amazing.

  11. rkcal says:

    My fingers are cramping from the excessive scrolling down. BREVITY…….it’s important.

  12. Alex says:

    Thanks Glorious Uproar. Very rude comments on my post. Just trying to add my 2 cents to OTC but gotta be honest, disparaging comments hurt.

  13. Hoppy says:

    Greg nice to know you have provided an outlet for the regions unemployed to vent in an incoherent yet lengthy manner

  14. Kyle says:

    OK we get it. Terrance, Alex, and Jackson are the same guy and you know how to copy and paste real well. Thanks for stopping by.

  15. heeterjoe says:

    Greg – Put a character limit on your comment box please.

  16. JP says:

    Brevity sure isn’t the soul of this nitwit. Just worry about beating a mediocre SEC team.

  17. Gavin says:

    TL;DR.

    Lemme guess, KU hate that you didn’t come up with yourself but cut-and-pasted from people either more original than yourself or who had previously cut-and-pasted what you are now cutting-and-pasting and posting here? Am I close?

  18. Kyle says:

    Terrance thank you for your obsession with KU. Jealousy is one of the highest forms of flattery.

  19. rkcal says:

    Is this the new rage in comment sections? To cut and paste outlandishly long and incomprehensible text? What’s the payoff? Weird shit.

  20. Paracelsus says:

    What I think of is the sheer losery effort of it. This bitter schmuck had to either cut and paste or compose a massive diatribe that few will read, none will remember, and has zero effect on the winning record that seems to bother him so much. Why? Therapy, I guess.

  21. JP says:

    The funniest part of his post is the gay slur when discussing Collins and Aldrich. Think about that, a Missouri fan making a gay slur. I thought that fanbase was the peak of tolerance.

  22. Zed says:

    2 long. nobody reads this stuff. you are wasting time.

  23. Gavin says:

    Dude. You should totally start your own blog. You will get a LOT more people to ignore your thesis-length pedantic diatribes if you do it on your own obscure portion of the internet than if you squat on this one.

  24. nkkc says:

    I read it. Interesting break down.

    I don’t watch a ton of Mizzou basketball, but I do watch a fair amount. And while Haith was dealt a crappy future roster by Anderson, I think there’s a bit more to this season’s floundering than just that.

    Last year, Pressey was blamed for so much of what went wrong. But there was also talk that Haith had trouble reaching/coaching him. Which as a one time deal, isn’t much of an issue. Especially with a player he didn’t recruit.

    Now this season, he has a team that doesn’t play a lot of defense, frequently looks disinterested, and while there are improved individuals offensively (see: Brown), they sure don’t play very well together. There’s a lot of hero ball. Even Haith has talked about them “playing too cool,” with no motivation or energy.

    To me, this is becoming a pattern with Haith. It seems like he’s having a hard time getting the best out of his guys as a team. Perhaps a lack of communication/motivation. And while you might point to it just being a bad year, his history at Miami doesn’t point to this as an exception. In fact, I’d argue that his first season at Mizzou was the exception to his coaching abilities, and things are starting to come back around to the norm.

    Again, I’m not a Mizzou guy, but if I were a fan, I’d be getting awfully nervous that once again the wrong guy was hired. Maybe another year to get things going, then on to the next one? Of course, I’d have a hard time allowing Alden to hire yet another basketball coach. It’s a tough spot. One I don’t see getting any better.

  25. kylerohde says:

    Points for being much more coherent than Terrance but good god that’s too much.

  26. Glorious Uproar says:

    I read it. Good work

    Don’t let Jayhawk trash keep you from doing more of this

  27. BlackJack says:

    Long story short: In other words, Frank Haith is a pretty mediocre major college BSC bball coach

  28. Kyle says:

    x100. Can’t scroll down fast enough.

  29. Kyle says:

    Classy.

  30. john doe says:

    “You never mattered anyway Missouri. Now we NEVER have to talk about you since you left our family.”

    Except when you do.

  31. JP says:

    Tell that to your missourah pal Terrence that started this cut and paste crap that has taken over this blog. When the posts are more characters than Greg’s original, it doesn’t need to be on here.

  32. Jim says:

    Thank you, JD! I’ll read every critical, snarky, nasty, comment about my Jayhawks when it comes in the form of a few short, articulate and succinct sentences. That other shit is just ridiculous.

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