OTC: Has Haith Turned Mizzou Into Just “A Football School?” / Pioli To Poison Atlanta?

“If this (Mizzou) team doesn’t make it to the NCAA Tournament should (Frank) Haith be canned? … Last night on Twitter Missouri fans were done – and I don’t blame them! You don’t lose to LSU in basketball.”
Bob Fescoe, after Missouri dropped to 2-3 in the SEC with a road loss at LSU, 610 AM
GH: The 12-1 start and a win over UCLA got Mizzou fans thinking maybe their Tigers had been undervalued in the preseason. But starting 2-3 in the SEC with losses to three bad teams has proven to be a reality check in Columbia.

“The sad thing is these losses don’t even hurt. I’m just like, oh well. We’re a football school now.”
@MizzouKCfan4, Twitter

“He’s looking more like Frank Haith. When Missouri hired him he looked like a low-20s-win coach at best.”
Josh Klingler, 610 AM
GH: Haith captured the nation’s attention with his 31-win season his first season at Missouri. But the ride since has been fraught with on- and off-the-court issues. One of his biggest problems at Mizzou is his inability to excite his fan base into showing up for games at Mizzou Arena.

“This feels like the Quin Synder days with more talent. … I had low expectations for this season but even this is looooooooow.”
Carrington Harrison, @CDotharrison, Twitter

“We competed tonight. You can’t take anything away from our guys’ competitive spirit tonight. You can’t. LSU’s a good ballclub and they were ready to play … (but) I’m very pleased and encouraged by how hard our guys competed.”

Frank Haith, after Mizzou loss at LSU, Kansas City Star
GH: Coaches who are on the hot seat immediately start to applaud their team’s effort after a bad loss. This is a change from how Haith talked about his team just a week ago. It sounds to me like the heat has been turned up since the embarrassing loss at home to Georgia and getting punked by seven guys at Vandy.

“Either you are with ‘us’ or you’re not. Negativity coming from frustration is understandable, but if being FAIRWEATHER, you can kick rocks. Coach Haith and the guys will get this thing back on track. Just a couple early stumbling blocks. It’s called adversity. It makes you strong.”
Laurence Bowers, @LBowers_21, former MU player responding to the critical tweets directed at Haith and MU following the LSU loss, Twitter
GH: Bowers is reacting like you would a recent graduate of the basketball program to react – defensively. But he looks like he’s adding to the problem rather than helping to solve it. There is no such thing as a “fairweather fan.” People either care about a team or they do not. It is up to the team to make sure they are worth caring about.

“Texas is now 4-2 in the Big 12 after Jonathan Holmes’ buzzer beater beat K State. Not many doing a better coaching job than Rick Barnes.”
Jon Rothstein, @JonRothstein, after Texas pulled out a last-second win over K-State Tuesday night in Austin, Twitter
GH: A tough loss for Kansas State and a huge win for the Longhorns. The Jayhawks also was very interested in the outcome of this game. KU now has a cushy two-game lead in the loss column over every other Big 12 team.

“Another solid win for Rick Barnes &; the Longhorns. Based on outside expectations before season, he’d be Big 12 Coach of the Year right now.”
Fran Fraschilla, @franfraschilla, Twitter
GH: Texas beat K-State at home on a deep corner three shot that made every nightly highlight show. So has Barnes really done a better job than Bruce Weber at this stage in the conference race? Does Bill Self get no credit for being 5-0? I think Barnes has always been underrated but he’s far from the only Big 12 coach who deserves mention for the conference’s COTY.

“What fans boo more? Kansas State fans or Iowa State fans?”
Nate Bukaty, on the two basketball fan bases at their home gyms, 810 AM
GH: I heard Aaron Swarts echo Nate’s sentiments by saying this was a close call. Both Nate and Aaron are Kansas grads and huge Kansas fans. I have heard a lot of complaining from KU fans about how much ISU fans booed during the Jayhawks win in Ames. This is the first I’ve heard where the fans at Bramlage are being compared to the Cyclone fans. Do Kansas fans think they don’t boo inside Allen Fieldhouse? Now, when you rarely lose at home (and you don’t have to play Kansas), I can understand maybe why you think your boos aren’t as offensive. But I don’t see any difference between any fans inside a packed house when their team is on the short end of a call, a play or the score.  

“Scott (Pioli) is one of the most respected and adept talent evaluators in the NFL and a member of three Super Bowl championship teams.”
Thomas Dimitroff, GM of the Atlanta Falcons, on naming the former Chiefs GM as the Falcons assistant GM, NFL.com
GH: Dimitroff has known Pioli and worked with him for 20 years. Maybe he knows something about Pioli that we missed here in Kansas City. But I am guessing we could tell Dimitroff a thing or two that he might have missed about his old pal as well.  

“CALLING ALL ATLANTA RADIO STATIONS: I am free ALL DAY to talk Scott Pioli. Please, please call me.”
Nick Wright, @getnickwright, Twitter 

“Scott Pioli is a smart football guy. Chiefs experiment didn’t work because of coaching hire and QB. Those are set in Atlanta.”

Evan Silva, @evansilva, Twitter
GH: Oh, is that all it was here in KC? Seems kind of important for the GM to get those two hires right, don’t you think?

“Median price paid for a Super Bowl ticket on Stubhub dropped another $14 today, down to $2,985.”
Darren Rovell, @darrenrovell, Twitter
GH: Three grand for a ticket to a football game outside in NYC in February. Just say no.

/ Twitter @greghall24

About Greg Hall

Software guy who has been writing my Off The Couch column in KC newspapers, publications and websites since 1994. Has been bounced from some of the finest media establishments this side of State Line Road. Dad first and everything else second...and there are a lot of everything elses.
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55 Responses to OTC: Has Haith Turned Mizzou Into Just “A Football School?” / Pioli To Poison Atlanta?

  1. Gavin says:

    I hate Pioli as much as the next Chiefs fan, but if his role is not one where he is going to be given any negotiating power, organizational policymaking or authority over the selection or retention of coaches (in other words, strictly player evaluations), he might actually be in a setting where he could do a reasonably good job. Especially if there is someone over him to prevent him from signing everyone the Patriots decide to cut in the offseason. But it’s clear that he cannot be allowed to be in charge of anything at all.

  2. Jim says:

    I love the ‘Clones fans! Always have since the days of the Big 8/Big 12 tournaments in KC when it was an Iwegian invasion. great fans. But good God! They boo every single call made against their team at Ames. It’s not just a few boos. It’s a collective, whole-crowd boo on every call. They do have something in common with KSU fans in that they have a perpetual chip on their shoulder and wear their “we get no respect” badge openly.

    • sporty says:

      And, Ku fans don’t boo every call against the jayhawks??? Granted, there aren’t many called, but they boo all the time. Most crowds boo.

      • Doug says:

        Big difference if a KU player takes 3 steps before a dunk KU fans groan when it is called. At Iowa State they boo no matter what. I was on an ISU fan board a while back and even their fans were critical of the constant booing. The difference — fans who are educated about the game.

        • chuckart says:

          That is complete and utter horse shit. The majority of ku fans I know aren’t educated about the game. They just like to feel like they are important because ku wins basketball games.

        • EstoniaKat says:

          Funny, I seem to remember a lot of boos in Allen when Embiid got a flagrant against K-State; an obvious call worthy of ejection.
          As he ran off the court, all you could here was BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
          “Fans that are educated about the game.” LOLZ

    • Johnny Orr's fan club says:

      I always thought there were two Iowa State “boo’s” The “call against us boo” and the “that was a bad call boo.” Both sound the same. Iowa State fans are fans – they would probably admit that they aren’t as “sophisticated” as KU, but not any less passionate about the game.

  3. Jeff Gelski says:

    Frank Haith’s future at MU will depend upon his ability in the coming offseason to recruit a JUCO inside player (think Ricardo Ratliffe) who can score. Haith, with a winning percentage over 70% while at MU, is safe for now. If we fail to make the NCAAs this year, he will be on the hot seat at the beginning of next year.

    • HARLEY says:


    • Steve says:

      Hell, any inside player would be nice.

      And I agree with what you’re saying. He’s safe for now but next year is a big year. Let’s remember this: Haith is two years removed from a 31-win team (yes, they choked). The following year he lost 4 starters. Then, if I’m not mistaken, he lost 4 more starters coming into this season (or at least 3. I can’t remember if both Brown and Ross started last year). That’s basically entirely new teams in back-to-back years.

      Yes, his recruiting needs to pan out. The transfers have been nice but you can’t live off of that. But look at what Mizzou has this year outside of The Big Three.

      JWIII – Freshman. Yes, pretty highly touted, but he still a freshman, who has shown flashes.
      Rosburg – Sophomore, hardly played last year. Basically another newcomer.
      Post – JUCO transfer, first experience with D-I basketball.
      Jones – Freshman. Not nearly as highly thought of as Williams, very raw.
      Clark – Freshman. In a similar situation as JWIII but hasn’t shown as many solid flashes as him.
      Rector – Freshman. Very few minutes.
      Criswell – Senior. Should be better. Can’t stay on the floor.

      He’s basically dealing with three veterans and a bunch of new guys. That’s why I feel like next year is big. Assuming everyone comes back that isn’t a senior, you hope most of the guys on the list above will take big steps forward and your looking at a no-doubt Top 25 team. If that doesn’t happen, they underachieve and guys don’t seem to be improving, then it’s very troublesome.

  4. DT says:

    I think Haith’s first season success had a lot to do with Ernie Nestor being on the bench

  5. Mike says:

    As long as Pioli is not handed organizational power, he won’t do any damage to the Falcons. In fact, he could be of limited help, as another set of eyes to Dimitroff.
    If he were left with some power, and to the pull of his overwhelming sense of paranoia, arrogance, and general isolation from the locals, he’ll destroy the Falcons before that new stadium is finished.

  6. hammy says:

    kansas fans don’t boo as much because there isn’t much to boo when you get every call.

    • Jim says:

      Don’t let the facts get in the way of your opinion, Hammy. KU’s opponents are averaging 1.2 (that’s one-point-two!) more fouls against them in the 2013-2014 season to date. There are 6 other teams in the Big 12 with higher foul differentials than KU. Like I said, don’t let the facts get in the way.

      • Guy Who Says What Others Think says:

        Not that I agree with the OP, but there are more calls in a game than just fouls.

        • Jim says:

          I completely understand that, Guy. But, that cuts both ways and can never be quantified. An additional factor is the number of games that KU plays where the opponent is intentionally fouling to extend the game when they are behind. Couple this with the fact that KU “typically” trots out superior athletes with superior skills to the vast majority of their opponents. Them NOT committing as many fouls as their opponents doesn’t seem to be that shocking of a statistic.

      • hammy says:

        Seldon going OOB wasn’t a foul call

  7. PV_Pathfinder says:

    The worst part of the Border Patrol this morning was listening to the rocks in Bukaty’s head bang together as he tried to come up with a John Holmes joke. Simply painful. Couldn’t flip to XM fast enough.

    • Biff says:

      The Boarder Patrol sucks now. All they care about is making up penis jokes.

    • Jack Wagon says:

      I bailed too this morning on the Border Patrol. One or two John Holmes jokes, ok ha ha, but 3 hours worth? Overall like the show but sometimes they just cannot get out of the sophomore locker room. When they start going down that path I turn fairly fast, but not to 610. I would rather listen to a medley of Ryan Wiebe commercials than 1 minute of Fescoe’s profound wisdom.

  8. Steve says:

    ISU fans think their team never fouls and their opponents never make a good play without fouling, I don’t mind booing when you are on the wrong end of a bad call but the Cyclones actually can and do foul, it is also quite possible for the opposing team to block a shot or grab a rebound without fouling. I don’t think KSU is as bad as ISU but the state ag schools seem to have more of a chip on their shoulders than other schools, and I would include Okie State in with the our school never fouls group.

  9. Someone should explain to Bowers that the opposite of caring about a team is not anger after the team stinks up the joint. Instead, the opposite of caring about a team is indifference to bad results. Bowers should embrace the anger, because it still buys tickets and shows up. The indifferent do not.

  10. Rico_suave says:

    As far as attendance, Some of the blame has to fall to whichever suits approved Mizzou arena plans.

    Yes, a beautiful , graceful seating area, wide aisles, plenty of leg room, wide seats with backs.. very modest inclines.. perhaps great for watching a violin concert. But for a game — you’re just too far from the action!

    Contrast with Allen – crowded bench seats.. your knees in the back of the guy in front of you, steep inclines — but EVERY seat a great view, and close enough you feel like part of the game.

    Hey — a BB game is just 2 hours — give me cramped, uncomfortable exciting Allen every time!

    • john doe says:

      Fact – The comfort of a stadium is directly related to the success of your team. KU always wins, so that “arena” is a lot more comfortable and doesn’t smell like shit, as it would if the team wasn’t very good.

  11. Biff says:

    MU a football school.? WTF. If MU ever won a BCS bowl like KU or a BIG 12 /SEC conference championship like KSU has then someday they can start to be a football School. MU is a girls softball school.That is what MU is best at mediocre in all other sports.

    • Jon in Lenexa says:

      Having one fluke season in which your scum AD bought his way into the Orange Bowl instead of your rival who was better than you and BEAT YOU, does NOT make KU more of a football school than Mizzou. You beakers can’t sniff the level of success we’ve had in football. When you’ve been invited to join the SEC and won 10+ games in 4 of 7 seasons, you can talk to me. Not to quote Deloss Dodds because he’s an idiot but it applies here: a good season at KU would be an unacceptable one at MU. If you go 6-6 and make some crap bowl, you’ll be throwing a parade on the streets of Lawrence. 6-6 at MU puts our coach on the hot seat. Get a grip, you dumb beakers. Leave the football talk to the rest of us.

      • Jayhawk '97 says:

        Calm down Jon, he didn’t say KU was a better football school then MU… just that MU hasn’t won a conference championship in football since 1969. KU’s a basketball school and KU wins Conference Titles. Going to the Cotton Bowl once every five years does not make you a football school.

        • JK says:

          Stat Check…

          Let’s take a look at records of the programs who have won national titles since that first big Cotton Bowl win! I included MU as well as the good folks from Manhattan for good measure!

          Alabama 79 15 0.840425532
          LSU 73 20 0.784946237
          Florida St. 68 26 0.723404255
          Florida 65 27 0.706521739
          Missouri 65 28 0.698924731
          Auburn 59 32 0.648351648
          Kansas St. 52 36 0.590909091

          Golly, I guess Auburn and Kansas State aren’t football schools huh? Florida too for that matter?

          I guess Bucknell, Northern Iowa, Bradley, and TCU are all mighty basketball powerhouses since they knocked off the holy greatness that is the University of Kansas.

          Listen Beakers, I’m not a MU fan. I get that you have powered your way past the likes of Jeff Capel and Pat Knight and Sean Sutton and Barry Collier and Scott Drew along with the sacrificial lambs from Manhattan the last decade or so to win one Big 12 title after another. And you finally had a bit of good fortune to cough up a national title after choking for so many years by beating a 16, an 8, a 12, and a 10 seed along with playing a Roy Williams team that did what a Roy Williams team does in March and then playing a band of ineligible players who were whipping you until they forgot how to shoot free throws. I’m not trying to take any of that away from you, but please spare me the schtick of chastising fans for being more into a team that has had recent success and plays in the top football conference in D1 as opposed to a team that waltzes through an overrated basketball conference and routinely finds ways to fall flat on their face when it really counts.

      • Biff says:

        If MU was a football school Pinkel would of been fired years ago. Pinkel is 4-23 vs top 10 teams, 12-37 vs top 25 teams. No BCS bowl No conference championships. A real football school would of fired Pinkel
        Real football schools are talking about football recruiting now. MU cant talk about that they are at the bottom of the SEC in recruiting and losing recruits after this “Great” year.

  12. Hoppy says:

    “The sad thing is these losses don’t even hurt. I’m just like, oh well. We’re a football school now.”
    @MizzouKCfan4, Twitter

    I agree completely. I see the losses and just kind of roll my eyes but that’s about as much emotion as i can elicit. I love being in the SEC b/c of the coverage, football, etc so its worth it but I’ll admit that leaving the big12 did have one downside and that was basketball. When you trade off playing at allen, hilton, gallager-iba for the likes of whatever barns that bama, lsu, etc play in…well apathy sets in real fast. But outside of just a handful of places (here as long as ku is good being one) no one cares about cbb until the tourney.. Seems like a great trade off to me.

    • Kyle says:

      I guess that’s why we are flooded with coverage on every sports channel nightly. Because no one cares.

      • hammy says:

        around here there is nothing else to talk about. Chiefs are done, Royals haven’t begun. ku has found it’s spot of glory in a completely dead sports period

        • Kyle says:

          unless your basketball team is good, right hammy?

          • trajan says:

            College BBall is a shell of it’s former self….KU will never see a Manning again( or Georgetown a Ewing)! Hell they will never have a Rex Walters again…anyone who is marginally talented leaves after two years. Yes it’s great that KU can get the best recruits to come to it’s school and be competing for championships year in and out, but I find it harder and harder to sit through an entire college game without getting disgusted and switching channels.

  13. Hoppy says:

    I suppose if all you do is watch the kansas metro sports channel then that’s true. Compare the ratings and money involved b/w the two and get back to me.

    • Kyle says:

      You’re comparing apples to oranges. Football is one game per week. Basketball ratings are obviously good or else the games would not be all over TV. And no, I do not have the KU metro sports channel because I will never waste my money on a crap product like Time Warner again.

      • Hoppy says:

        I didn’t know football was on just one day out of the week but i appreciate you enlightening me. Also you find it on the TV b/c it has very little competition this time of year and furthermore you are seeking it out. .that doesn’t mean its getting any ratings. Look,you have every right to be proud of ku basketball but so do sporting fans and no one pays attention to that either.

  14. Jeff S says:

    I am a huge Tiger fan but I can’t watch 10 minutes of the basketball team play. The SEC sucks and we are getting our ass kicked. Everytime I turn on the TV and see a game being played at Mizzou Arena I want to take a nap.

    Rosburg couldn’t start for Washburn and that MF is starting for us!! You go to be kidding. He couldn’t score double figures against Blue Valley Northwest’s low post players!!

    Put me out of my fu___n misery. To say that we are apathetic is a huge understatement!

    • Java Man says:

      Yep. I can’t name 5 players on this team. A team full of transfers is nothing more than a coach trying to save his job.

  15. Angry Sloth says:

    I feel obligated to state my bias upfront. I am a Wildcat. I bleed purple. I worship the ground Bill Snyder walks on. And with that in mind I want to attempt to look at this through a prism of objectivity (although I doubt I’ll come across that way). KU has no equal in this conference. Not even in football is there a situation that compares to what the Hawks are doing each and every year. Sure the Texas athletic department makes (and spends) money hand over fist. Sure Oklahoma makes a BCS bowl every other year. But none of that compares to what is going on with basketball in this conference. When KU fans start complaining about the fan base of other programs I want to write it off as them being jaded and be done with it, but really I think it’s more complicated than that. Take ISU and KSU for instance. These are two schools that are straddling the line between relevance and mediocrity, but at least the fans seem to care. These schools want to beat KU (the only real big dog in the conference), and the fans show this passion with the way they react during games. I feel like KU fans don’t get that luxury. They are a true blue blood, and that comes with certain expectations. KU fans go to the Phog expecting to win every single game, and their actions/reactions tend to be more subdued. Do KU fans have the right to complain about other fan bases? Sure, of course they do. But I also wonder why they feel the need to. KU is a legitimate Superpower, and I don’t think anybody expects that to change anytime soon. Is complaining about another teams fan base all KU fans have to keep them interested? Every season I can look forward to the opportunity to watch my Wildcats get their butts kicked twice by a hated rival, but KU fans don’t really have that hated rival… Is complaining about the way they get treated on the road compensation for their blue blood status? I think it would be interesting to see Duke or UNC come into Allen Fieldhouse and see the fan reaction if the game was close and a couple of calls went against the Jayhawks. Wow… This turned into a super long post.

    • Kyle says:

      Nice post AS. As a KU fan I think you hit it dead on. I know a lot of KU fans get riled up about the boo’s, but to me that’s just other fanbases showing their passion. Playing in Ames, Stillwater, and Manahattan is not easy. The fans are all over you from beginning to end, and in my opinion, that’s what makes college basketball great. Others here are talking about the apathy in the SEC. You rarely see that in the Big 12. The passion is there for basketball just as much as football and I love it.

  16. Scott Pioli says:

    Suck it, KC. I got another job! How ya like dem apples! You Chiefs fans are so lucky that you had me for 4 years. I built you a roster that produced 10 Pro Bowlers! What more do you want? Not my fault that Bob Sutton is an idiot and can’t scheme a defense. Matt Cassel would’ve made a play or two in Indy that Alex Smith didn’t. I DID GOOD THINGS THERE. The ONLY mistake I made was in hiring that homeless slob Haley as HC. What a dipshit he turned out to be. Everything that went wrong here can be tied directly to him. His stink from 2011 carried over into 2012 and infested the team. I got a raw deal. We were doing things The Patriot Way and we were going to build the Right 53 and win championshipSSSS. So have fun with Andy Reid. /hehe/ I’ll be Atlanta with my boy Dimitrof and I’ll be squirting some Patriot Juice into the Dirty Birds. First thing we need to do, I need to get with Thomas about this, is shore up our backup quarterback position. Matty Cassel will be perfect for that role. If Matt Ryan (meh) goes down, we’d be in great hands. It’s not about the quarterback, people. That’s the least important position on the team. You don’t need a playmaker there. You just want a nice guy. So in closing, I just want to say to the people of KC: fuck you. Go Pat, errrrrr, Falcons! /wonder if the Niners would part with Jon Baldwin/ /hey! Who the fuck left that candy wrapper in here?/

  17. Tim says:

    I really enjoy listening to Kevin Harlan doing play by play, but he is getting almost unlistenable when he’s a guest on 810. When he wasn’t kissing Pisstro’s ass for the upteenth time, he made Pioli sound like he was a huge success here.

    • Chas says:

      I’m surprised harlan could fit in a compliment with all the compliments petro implies about how smart his own self is in every single show. Wow. You went to Syracuse? That’s an ivy league school right?! Oh, but since you went there no way anybody could call you out for being a ku cheerleader, right? Wow. You think you’re smarter than bob fescoe and maybe some other sports talk guys? Pretty impressive, fat f***

    • JP says:

      Harlan is a very good pxp guy. Just because someone is a good pxp guy doesn’t make them entertaining talk radio. His segments with Petro and especially KK can get downright boring and dull. While I enjoy his knowledge of the NFL, when he gets out of his comfort zone, he doesn’t bring much to the table. His takes are generally safe and sound LEAGUE APPROVED.

      I heard his discussion about Pioli, and it was weird to say the least. He sounded like someone who didn’t know his audience. Pioli was hated by the fans, Chiefs Employees, I don’t care if it’s a hardship for him to move. Be gone. At least the Falcons will have the cleanest stairwells in the NFL.

      BTW, I wonder what Tony G. thinks of this.

  18. Matt says:

    As a Mizzou fan, I have to agree with KU fans when they talk about ISU fans constant booing. It isn’t just when KU plays there – ISU fans boo at EVERYTHING.

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