OTC: Is Beltran Playing With Or For The Royals? / Chiefs New Headache / Self Not Into MU Revival

“Other teams becoming convinced that Carlos Beltran is going to land with the Royals, on a deal of 3/$48 million.”
Buster Olney, @Buster_ESPN, Twitter
GH: This is the tweet from the ESPN MLB insider that fueled a lot of discussion about Beltran returning to Kansas City to close out a possible HOF career. Beltran was tremendous for the Cardinals in the postseason this fall. How good was he? Better than even our own St. George – and that is pretty damn good.  But is he worth it at 36 years of age?  Should that money have gone to trying to resign Santana? Does signing Beltran mean trading Billy Butler? Lots of question to ponder about a free agent who has yet to make his decision.

“(Beltran) is not close to making a deal. He is in the process of going and visiting teams. Are the Royals going to sign him? I don’t know. I think the key question is, ‘What does Carlos really want?’ He’s playing the game by visiting the Royals and other teams.”
Buster Olney, on the free-agent outfielder, 810 AM
GH: Olney appeared on 610’s The Drive on Tuesday and he sounded a lot more convincing about Beltran becoming a Royal than he did the following day on 810’s The Border Patrol. He was backpedalling with the kind of expertise we would expect from Trey Hillman on his unicycle.  

“(Beltran) is a major liability in right field. That was the view of this (MLB) executive.”
Buster Olney, 810 AM
GH: If Beltran can’t play right field, do the Royals really want him and Butler on the same bench? For the next two or three years? It seems like the Royals are spending a lot of money to make up for trading the cheap services of Wil Myers.

“In six full seasons Jacoby Ellsbury has averaged 114 games. He made one All-Star team, won one Gold Glove and hit more than 9 homers once.”
Gerry Callahan, @GerryCallahan, after the Yankees signed the former Red Sox outfielder to a seven-year contract for $153 million, Twitter
GH: Ellsbury’s agent is the infamous Scott Boras – who also is the agent of Royals players Eric Hosmer and Mike Moustakas. Anyone want to guess the Royals’ chances of resigning either once they reach free agent status?

“Just an amazingly bad #Ellsbury deal by #Yankees. A fragile outfielder whose power already vanished and whose speed will.”
Keith Olbermann, @KeithOlbermann, Twitter
GH: The worst part about the Ellsbury signing is that it may be a really awful financial move for the Yankees – that won’t matter if it fails. The Yankees treat money like the Royals treat hot dogs on Buck Night.

“Teams have now spent $524 million on free agents this offseason. The Yankees account for $238 million of that, or 45.4%.”
Jeff Passan, @JeffPassan, Twitter
GH: Is MLB going to do anything about the economic imbalance of its franchises or will they just sit back and watch the big-money teams continue to dominate free agency? They sure look quite content with the status quo.

“Judging by the unhappy, angry, sad reaction of #Royals fans, the Dayton Moore deal brings new meaning to Black Friday.”
Pete Grathoff, @pgrathoff, Twitter
GH: Who didn’t know the Royals would resign Moore? A two-year deal gives the Royals plenty of room to fire him if he and Ned lead the club back to a 70-win season.

“I have to wake up every day and look at my phone to know what day it is.”
Conrad Dobler, former NFL player, on his present condition due to suffering concussions while playing football, KCUR
GH: I’m not sure this is the best argument for long-term brain damage from playing football. Dobler is now 63 and there are a lot of folks his age who don’t know what day it is when they wake up…and some a bit younger.

“(Ken) McClain used a clause in Missouri law — set to expire at the end of this year — that makes it the only state in the union allowing players to sue their team for damages, as opposed to being required to sue the National Football League. McClain filed suit on behalf of five players who were with the Chiefs between 1987 and 1993: Alexander Cooper, Leonard Griffin, Christopher Martin, Joseph Phillips and Kevin Porter. The lawsuit claims all five players suffer from post-concussion syndrome and latent brain disease, and suspected Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy.”
James Dornbrook, writer, bizjournals.com
GH: I listened to McClain be interviewed Tuesday on 610 by Danny Parkins and Carrington Harrison and also on 810 by Kevin Kietzman. He did not impress me as an orator but he is known for his research and getting huge settlements for his clients. The NFL should be and probably is worried.

“Within two years, we’ll have a resolution of some type I would hope.”
Ken McLain, legal counsel for the five ex-Chiefs who are suing their former team for their concussion injuries, 810 AM
GH: Why wouldn’t every former Chiefs and Rams player take advantage of this loophole in Missouri law and cash in on McLain’s work? I expect that number of five to grow much larger before the end of the year.

“They’re all saying that Salt Lake is the finesse team and we’re just a bunch of brutes who don’t like to play soccer. That’s alright. We invite that. We know that’s not true.”
Matt Besler, Sporting’s hometown defender and MLS All-Star, 610 AM
GH: Hear that Kansas City – especially you non-soccer brutes? Sporting is considered to be the goons of the MLS. Kind of makes those soccer guys running around in their shorts a lot more palatable, doesn’t it?

“I’m from Argentina and the atmosphere here (at Sporting Park) is as good as anywhere.”
Gabriel Gabor, MLS PR man, in an interview with The Border Patrol, 810 AM
GH: I take my good-natured shots at soccer and have been doing it since I played the game in the ‘60s. But even the harshest local critics should acknowledge the rabid fan base that Sporting has spawned here in our city. I don’t always get the craziness and singing and scarfs and religious devotion to the sport but so what? Those who do are having a helluva good time and they’ve made Kansas City one tough place to play.

“I can’t believe (the weather forecast calls for temps in the teens for Saturday afternoon). The last three days have been amazing at practice. It’s not my first choice – or my second, or third probably or fourth! But it won’t be an issue for us.”
Matt Besler, 810 AM
GH: I stretched my Wednesday morning run (in 45-degree temps) to almost 10 miles in preparation for the drop in temps over the next week. I might be skipping some days. I cannot imagine how cold and miserable it is going to be for the players and the fans at Sporting Park Saturday afternoon. 17 degrees? Heading that ball is going to feel like banging your forehead into a wall.

“Having it at home is awesome. It makes it a lot sweeter if you win. But if you lose, it’s going to hurt more because it’s such a big opportunity. But hopefully we win, and it’s all good.”
Matt Besler, USA Today
GH: I am calling for a KC trifecta on Saturday with a KU win over Colorado, Sporting defeats Real Salt Lake and Mizzou brings home the SEC championship trophy. I’d also like to see KSU Thursday night at Bramlage knock off Ole Miss and their bombastic shooting guard, Marshall Henderson. Tell me that game won’t be a fun one to watch.

“Probably not real good if the SEC / Big 12 Challenge wants to continue.”
Bill Self, when asked what the chances are of Kansas getting paired up against Missouri in the future, 610 AM
GH: Bill just ain’t budging. But even some Kansas fans are starting to miss this great rivalry game.

“Missouri wants to play and they should play. It’s time.”
Bob Fescoe, KU alum and avowed Jayhawk homer, 610 AM

“It is time. Come on!”
Josh Klingler, Iowa grad who works for the Jayhawk Radio Network, 610 AM
GH: I heard Klingler doing play-by-play of the Kansas basketball game Saturday while the Jayhawks were in the Bahamas and Bob Davis was busy calling the KSU/KU football game in Lawrence. Klingler did a nice job not only in calling the game but also working with Greg Gurley. I wonder if Nate Bukaty was jealous? Davis, a Topeka native, is 68 years old and the search for his replacement can’t be far off. Davis was hired by KU in 1984 after his run at Fort Hays State. Whoever replaces the much-loved Davis will have a difficult time matching his talents. While Bob’s age has robbed him of late of some of his greatness, he will always be one of the best play-by-play talents I have ever heard on radio.

“Arrowhead record was 137.5 RT @ESPNNFL: WOW!! A World Record for noise at Century Link in Seattle — 137.6.”
Chris Fickett, @ChrisFickett, Twitter
GH: Is anybody anywhere surprised that Guinness found a way to give Seattle the “new record” by .1 decibel? One of my favorite comments on this was from the Chiefs super fan known as, The X-Factor. He told KMBZ that Seattle deviously had been “gathering intel for some time,” on how the Chiefs fans had broken the records at Arrowhead. And Santa is going to be flanked by military bombers this Christmas.

and Twitter / @greghall24

About Greg Hall

Software guy who has been writing my Off The Couch column in KC newspapers, publications and websites since 1994. Has been bounced from some of the finest media establishments this side of State Line Road. Dad first and everything else second...and there are a lot of everything elses.

115 Responses to OTC: Is Beltran Playing With Or For The Royals? / Chiefs New Headache / Self Not Into MU Revival

  1. nick says:

    Doubt Beltran is in Royal blue again, but it’d be exciting.

    Thought Klingler did well calling the games. And he got a ton of listeners I imagine, from AXS-less KU fans.

    I admit that a KU-MU game every December would be fun, if totally meaningless. But I love that Self is holding his ground. Missouri went to what they think is a better league. They don’t need KU or the Big 12, so KU doesn’t need MU.

  2. Tim says:

    Still think the MU-KU rivalry should resume and play on the weekend after Thanksgiving. Basketball Friday night and Football on Saturday. Sprint Center and Arrowhead.

  3. john doe says:

    Good to see Self is still angry about Missouri leaving.

    I’m sure Charlie Weis is thrilled.

    Fuck Kansas.

    • Kyle says:

      Not so sure he is angry as he just doesn’t care. He his not the one that keeps bringing up the questions. I bet CW would love to play the tiggers. They will be back to the 5-7 win range next year so why not? Very eloquently spoken jd. We have come to expect nothing less from mizzouri nation.

      • john doe says:

        I’m sorry. Kuck Fansas.

        • Kyle says:


          • Will says:

            Kyle: “Not so sure he is angry as he just doesn’t care.”

            If he didn’t care the MU-ku game would be on the schedule. He cares, the poor, little, bald bitch is still hurt though. That’s easy to see.

            ku gives MU a BIG compliment every time they schedule Colorado or Nebraska. It’s not because we left. It’s because we left you behind.

            • E. Jack Hewlett says:

              KU schedule CU because its a good opportunity for KU fans in western KS and the big alum base in Denver to see the Jayhawks . And the coach is a former KU player. NU? Not on the schedule.

              Missouri? Who cares? I thought they were a football school anyway. But KU has enough easy non con games as it is. Don’t want to jeopardize the RPI just to appease some toothless meth heads from the. Ozarks.

            • Kyle says:

              And I’m sure you are happy you did. mu was KU’s bitch in b-ball, so that’s fewer losses each year for ol mizzourah. Or as Petro said..KU IS YOUR DADDY!!!

              • Will says:

                Very happy.

                We split plenty of years and we’re the school acting like an adult in the matter Kyle. There’s no bitch on this side of the state line. Just facts.

                Petro is a ranting lunatic, don’t care what he says.

              • hammy says:

                what if ku scheduled wisconsin and nebraska? what would you do?

                • Will says:

                  I don’t care either way. Just pointing out the childish behavior of playing some and not other former Big 8 rivals. That’s childish. Wisconsin???

      • brett says:

        self “doesn’t care” so much that he issues a veiled threat to blow up the SEC/B12 challenge if ku is ever matched up against mu? that actually sounds like he cares a whole lot. sounds like he hasn’t let it go.

        • Gavin says:

          I don’t think Self doesn’t care. Has he ever said that he doesn’t care about Missouri? If so, I don’t remember it and I read nearly everything I can about KU basketball. I’m pretty sure what Self has said is that Mizzou has moved on and that they’ve made it clear that their future doesn’t include KU.

          In fact, I’ll even go out and say that I think Self does care about MU. He’s probably pissed because they placed the Big XII in a precarious position and, by extension, placed KU in a potentially bad spot. Obviously, it all resolved without grievous harm being done to KU, but I’m pretty sure he’s still pissed about it. And the fact that Mizzou wants this game as much as it professes to want it is probably a really big reason why he won’t give it to them. Mizzou must think resuming the game would be good for them, right? Or else why would they keep calling for it? And KU is convinced that KU doesn’t need the game (and we don’t need it in basketball and it would only hurt us in football because we suck and it wouldn’t even be competitive). So, let me do some quick math here…Mizzou wants it, KU doesn’t need it…carry the three…yep, there’s no need for KU to play the game.

          The “don’t care” viewpoint is adopted by KU fans, myself included. The fact that KU fans enjoy it when Mizzou loses doesn’t mean we somehow “care” about Mizzou or want the Border War to resume. We really don’t. Fescoe, whether he’s a homer or not (and he totally is) doesn’t speak for all KU fans or even most of us. Good for Bob for wanting the game back. But pretty much every KU fan I know is really satisfied with the status quo of no longer playing Mizzou. And that’s what “don’t care” means. Is it cool when Mizzou loses? Absolutely. We enjoy those things. Just make sure you understand that because we root against Mizzou has nothing to do with being sanguine about never playing them again.

          • hammy says:

            to summarize “waaaaaahhhhh!!!”

            • Jim says:

              And there you have it folks. An extrememly articulate and rational argument presented by Gavin (a KU fan) and the equally articulate response from Hammy (a MU fan). You be the judge.

            • Brian Mills says:

              Hey ham sandwich fyi… It’s a waste of time for Kansas to reward mizzeri with a basketball game. Maybe you’ll get lucky someday and eek your way to a matchup in the big dance.

          • Will says:

            He’s probably pissed because they (MU) placed the Big XII in a precarious position and, by extension, placed KU in a potentially bad spot.

            No, Texas and OU crashed the big12 bus when they refused to share revenue equally; even after NU and CU left. When you’re left to live off the crumbs you likely wither and die. (Hello MLB). The MU brass was not going to let that happen and took the necessary steps to prevent it. Mizzou has proved their worth through the invitation to join the SEC. Full membership and equal sharing on day one. ku has no other options and their still sucking Texas’ hind t!t because of it. That’s not MU’s problem. If the big 12 has since fixed it’s problem, fine. It took ONE THIRD of the conference membership walking out the door for it to happen. You should be thanking the four schools that left.

            Alden has said repeatedly that there is an open invitation from this side for ku to play ball. ku is just too “hurt” to accept. So be it.

            The facts have not changed here folks.

          • brett says:


            my “doesn’t care” remark was in response to kyle’s claim that self doesn’t care.

            i understand your position, but i fail to see why you frame the issue as whether ku “needs” the game or not.

            of course ku doesn’t “need” the game. neither does mu. come to think of it, i can’t think of a single non-con game that any D-I college team really “needs.”

            non-con games, by there very nature, are a mixture of fluffy fillers against directional schools (SE NW Louisiana State) and prep games to get ready for conference foes (playing duke in chicago).

            none of these games are “needed.” the opponent is of little consequence, so long as you have some fluffy fillers and some respectable prep opponents, you’ve accomplished the mission of the non-con to get ready for conference play.

            so if you are looking for some prep games, why wouldn’t you want to play mu rather than colorado? i find it dishonest for self or any ku fan to claim their interest in an mu game would be exactly equal to their interest in a non-con game against colorado.

            and as for the argument that ku playing mu elevates mu’s stature, come on! ku fans dont really believe that do they? is ku really threatened by mu’s recruiting prowess? no way. wiggins wouldn’t even pick up the phone if haith had called.

            i think mu is just being honest about the fact that playing ku, whether in football or basketball, would add a little more spice to an otherwise boring non-con schedule.

            this is sports! its supposed to be fun! and ku/mu is just a little more fun that ku/colorado- isn’t it?

            • Gavin says:


              Don’t misunderstand me. If KU and MU chose to reschedule to the Border War, every single KU fan would circle that game and probably want to win that one more than anything other than a National Championship. That game would be huge for both sides, no doubt. And it would be almost certainly be more interesting than Colorado. That game would keep KU fans awake at nights and, I suspect, MU fans as well.

              All I’m saying is that I don’t think the game benefits us. Would it be huge? Sure. Would it make tons of money? Absolutely. But we already do decent box office in hoops. We do sell out every game we play in Kansas City (Tim’s comments about the CBE are noteworthy but they miss the point that the CBE makes tickets available to fans of all schools so it makes sense that fans of other schools that were bounced might not stay for the late game), so it’s not as is an MU game offers more money from ticket sales and, in fact, it would be less because half the tickets would be sold by MU to MU fans, so KU would be being asked to take a pay cut to play a game away from home when they can schedule someone else and keep all the money.

              As for the comparisons with Colorado, of course an MU game would be bigger. But playing at Colorado gives KU a chance to get a game away from home where a large part of KU’s fan base can more easily go to a game than in Lawrence or KC. All the KU fans in western Kansas and Denver will usually go to that game (although CU has taken some interesting steps to try to pack their place with CU fans and I’ll be curious to see how that works out). Again, it’s about what benefits KU. The powers that be at KU have decided that it doesn’t benefit KU to play the game or at least that it doesn’t benefit us enough, and I’m inclined to trust their judgment. All the KU fans I know are happy enough with our schedule. We wish you guys were still in the league but we understand why you left. We still hope you lose every game you ever play (and we know that feeling is reciprocated), but you moved on without us so we figure it’s time for us to move on as well.

              So, yeah, it would be spicy game and, for all I know, Bill Self is just doing this to gin up what would be absolutely rabid, frothing-at-the-mouth anticipation if the game ever resumes. But I’m okay with it. I love my school and I like my teams (even though football doesn’t like me back one little bit). Imma support them whoever they play and I won’t support them less if they play CU instead of Mizzou.

          • Ashley says:

            Why should Missouri care about putting KU in a potentially bad spot? It is not Missouri’s job to prop up Kansas because they are not desirable enough to escape the intolerable Big Texas Conference. If Kansas had the same offer as Missouri, they would have taken it as well. Any claims to the contrary are asinine.

            Not playing Missouri is the only card Kansas holds, so I don’t blame them for playing it. If KU feels wronged by Missouri leaving this is all they have to be able to express it publicly. It’s pathetic and childish, but as we are well into our second year in the SEC, I care less about continuing the the rivalry than I ever have. It is just easier not having to deal with the pettiness.

            The question to Self about playing the game wasn’t posed by Missouri, it was posed by the media. He could have easily said, “We’ll have to see if that ever happens.”, knowing that it never would. But he and a lot of Kansas fans are still bitter over Missouri’s departure and to some degree their SEC football success. And when you only hold one card in your hand, no matter how bad it is, you have to try playing it.

        • Bob Sacamano says:

          Exactly Self seems to care more than anyone. As a Mizzou fan, I don’t see why we need to play Kansas. We should just concentrate building rivalries with the SEC family.

          • john says:

            absolutely. in football, there is obviously no comparison between the matchups you get to see in the sec vs. the big 12. but even in basketball, you play florida and kentucky who have won multiple national championships recently. the rivalry with arkansas has a lot of potential too. for missouri, the sec is more exciting even for basketball, imo. sure, playing vanderbilt or whoever may not be exciting but it’s no worse than playing texas tech or tcu or the other dregs of the big 12-4+2.

            i’d rather not play ku, unless it’s in football and we need a cupcake. let them have fun playing nubs, colorado, and k-state in basketball as their “rivalry” games if it’s what they want

    • Jim says:

      Keeping it classy as always, JD.

  4. Guy Who Says What Others Think says:

    Let. It. Go. There’s no benefit to KU and they aren’t going to play. They can play anyone in Sprint, sell it out, and give up less of the ticket revenue. They’d be expected to win in convincing fashion, and jeered if they lost. In football, they are desperate for wins of any sort in the non conference, and playing Mizzou would result in a merciless ass kicking. The series is dead. Let’s move on.

    • Tim says:

      Didn’t they fail to sell out Sprint last year or the prior? Seem to remember a late game that was three quarters full.

      • Kyle says:

        CBE classic. Stand alone KU games have never failed to sell out.

        • Tim says:

          ohhh, standalone game…not a tournament game. Any other caveats to their automatic sellouts?

          • Gavin says:

            Tim, I’m not sure that’s really a caveat. The fact and the point is that there has never been an empty seat at Sprint when KU plays there. Does that simplify it enough for you?

            • Tim says:

              Then back to my original point…in the CBE tournament, KU played the late game…and it was not full by any stretch of the imagination, to which Kyle said it was the CBE classic…standalone games have never failed to sellout. So which is it?

              • Gavin says:

                I’m pretty sure your memory is failing you, Tim. The house was full.

                Of course, both our recollections are worthy of doubt because we both have a rooting interest in being right.

                The larger point is that GWSWOT is correct. The game is over. KU has made the dertmination that it is not in KU’s interest to resume the Border War. We can scream at each other all day “it was a sellout!” “NO IT WASN’T” and it won’t make a damn bit of difference. KU doesn’t want to play the game and won’t play the game. Why are we still wasting energy on it?

                • Alphonse Tooty says:

                  When KU played St Louis U at Spring last November there were only 10,000 people there. http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=323252305

                • Tim says:

                  for the record…


                  “The attendance for the final was listed at 10,315 in an arena that seats 18,972″

                  And it does matter because the original point was that KU sells out every game at Sprint…so playing MU would not matter. But they don’t, sooo

                  • Gavin says:

                    Okay. I stand corrected. The larger point remains, though. KU doesn’t think it’s in its own best interest to play, the game. They don’t need it. Everything else is just noise.

                  • Gavin says:

                    And, not for nothing, but the original point is still a valid one. I was wrong about the late game of the CBE being filled, but the point was the KU sells out every game it plays in Sprint is still valid. In the CBE there are, what, eight teams? Four? I honestly don’t know. But I do know that last year when KU played in it, one of the teams was Washington State and that, to play in it, they had to guarantee a certain amount of tickets that they sold to WSU fans. KU fans couldn’t have bought those tickets. Blaming KU for not selling out the CBE would be a little like blaming parents of high school kids for not buying up all the tickets to go see their kids perform when the kids’ high school band performs at a bowl game.

    • kylerohde says:

      Absolutely right on both counts.

    • Tim says:

      I think you all miss the point….no, neither team needs the game/s, MU and KU will do just fine without the revenue of the rivalry. It’s the fans that need it. Fans need that hatred to spill out on the field or court. You can say all day you dont care, yet you are still talking about it or commenting about it 2 years later. Of course you as a fan want it. None of us think MU would beat KU in Basketball, and you know KU would lose in football…but you still want to trash talk and hate for the one week out of the year leading up to the game.

      • Gavin says:

        I don’t speak for MU fans, because, Jesus. And I don’t speak for KU fans because they’ve stopped meeting at my house. But as one KU fan who is friends with a lot of other KU fans, as fans, we don’t need this game. Again, it would be interesting and huge and goddamn I would want KU to win, but no, I don’t need a venue for my dislike of MU to spill out on the court or the field. I truly am just fine with not playing it anymore. Am I talking about it? Yeah, I’m talking about it because it’s being discussed and I enjoy being part of the discussion on Greg’s blog. It’s fun and since we’re all sports fans, we don’t have to be 100% rational. But, and I swear on the soul of my kid and on the departed souls of my ancestors, I am just fine without playing the game. Really. I don’t need it, I’m not asking for it, I don’t secretly in my heart of hearts hope it resumes. If it does, I will cheer like a goddamn maniac for the Jayhawks but if they never meet on another court or field for the rest of ever, I’m honest-god-cool with it.

        • Tim says:

          Think back to the last game in AFH…when KU stormed back and beat Mizzou in the final seconds….When do you ever experience that much elation (aside from winning the natl champ)? I had the same feeling after Arrowhead in 07 or when Mizzou beat KU for the last time in como. Those moments cant just be replaced with KSU or Arkansas or whomever. Hell yeah i want that back.

    • Will says:

      Guy Who Says What Others Think says:
      December 4, 2013 at 1:21 pm
      They can play anyone in Sprint, sell it out, and give up less of the ticket revenue.

      Playing “anybody” in Sprint and keeping 2/3rds or even 3/4 of so-so ticket prices is a hell of a lot less revenue than playing MU at double the ticket price and taking half. Mr. ku skool of biznis.

      That argument doesn’t fly.

  5. yuri says:

    Really Greg? Bob Davis? “one of the best play-by-play talents I have ever heard on radio” Didn’t you just call him the biggest homer in the region? The only time I enjoy listening to Bob is hearing him call each popup as a home run on Royal baseball and his pouting fits when things don’t go KU’s way. The play-by-play guys at Mizzou, KSU (and Neb) are all significantly better than Bob.

    • Kyle says:

      My guess is that Steven Davis will take over for Bob in a couple of years when he retires. he was doing the sideline reporting for the football game the other day. He does a good job with UMKC.

    • Greg Hall says:

      yuri, The quality of Bob Davis’ work has slipped badly as he has aged but he was one of the best at any level at one time.

  6. Switzerland says:

    As a neutral observer, it seems to me that Bill Self has taken such a hard line stance in the past over playing Mizzou that he cannot backtrack on it at all now, even if he happened to change his mind. I don’t think he wants to play Mizzou still, but he can never soften his stance without looking hypocritical. But In talking to friends on both sides, most would like to see the rivalry revived.

    Self’s comment above also insinuates that KU is above the league, in that they would refuse to play in the Big 12/SEC challenge if paired up with Missouri. Which is similar to how Texas throws its weight around in football. And why four schools left the conference

    • Alphonse Tooty says:

      He’s already being hypocritical by playing Colorado.

      • E. Jack Hewlett says:

        Already explained above, Alphonse. Cu is not in the SEC, but also has not been grovel ing for a game with KU. There are better SEC teams for KU to match up with in the B12/Sec challenge, like this years opponent Florida, Arkansas, Kentucky, like KU these are schools that have actually made the final four and won NCAA tournaments, not some puffed up wannabe football school that think KU owes it a game.

        CU is a virtual home game for KU fans who are closer to boulder than to Lawrence or KC.

        • Alphonse Tooty says:

          Groveling? Come on. Listen, the reasons you state for scheduling Colorado are valid. It’s a good idea. But for Self to say he won’t schedule School A because they left the Big 12, then schedule School B, which left the Big 12 for the same reasons as School A, is being hypocritical. It just is.

  7. john doe says:

    This is Bill Self not angry

    “Probably not real good if the SEC / Big 12 Challenge wants to continue.”

  8. kylerohde says:

    Well, let’s start with Beltran. Giving a 35 year old, good hitter and marginal-to-poor outfielder a $16 million/year contract is idiotic, no matter how sentimental people feel about Beltran starting as a Royal. If they’re willing to spend that much money, why the hell did they sign Vargas and let Santana walk? And why haven’t they wrapped up a contract extension with Hosmer yet? Or could they not get a couple guys in the $8-10 million range instead?

    Greg, continuing to complain about the big market/small market inequity is just tired at this point. The revenue sharing from MLB has increased parity plenty, so just because the Yankees didn’t learn their lesson with Texiera, Granderson, A-Rod, etc. and overpaid the hell out of Jacoby Ellsbury doesn’t mean the system is broken.

    I was at the KC Library program on concussions last night, which featured old radio guy Roger Twibell as the moderator and Carl Peterson, Trent Green and Conrad Dobler as the panel, and it was fascinating. Peterson and Green spoke at length about Green’s scary concussion against the Bengals in ’06 and how that may have been one of the models the NFL used to build their current concussion protocol because it was handled so well. Peterson spoke in detail about what his current org, USA Football, is doing to fix the problems football has, starting with training kids and their coaches right at the very beginning. And Dobler talked a lot about what older players like him are going through. He’s had 9 knee replacements and a shoulder replacement, none of which were paid for by the NFL. He scoffed at the $765 settlement, saying hardly any players would see a dime of it and that 6 out of 10 players were opting out of it. He railed against the NFL for being the only business in American not liable for injuries to its workforce during the course of their working duties.

    Green sort of agreed but wasn’t as strong in his convictions. However, he did reveal that he is STILL settling worker’s comp issues with the Rams from his knee injury in the 1999 Kurt Warner’s star-is-born season. Great example of how jacked up the system the NFL has is. Dobler also talked about the NFL’s policy of requiring you to apply for disability through the league within 12 years of retirement. He said he’d started at year 8 and was jerked around from doctor to doctor for the next six years, ending with the league telling him he’d passed the 12 year limit. Not sure what their side is, but it was pretty damning for the league.

    • brett says:

      kyle: the system is broken because fans of small market teams are increasingly alienated from the stars of the game.

      when cole hamels hits free agency, no one in kc even knows it b/c there’s no way kc could ever sign him. it’s the same 6-8 teams every time that are mentioned as “possible suitors.”

      when peyton manning hits free agency, no one in kc talked about anything else until he inked a deal with denver. every small market team had just as good a chance as the big market teams to land him.

      i’m sure you will quote some statistic about how many small market clubs have made the playoffs, but that is seriously misleading. any small market club can catch lightening in a bottle, but their window is very short- when free agency hits, they are losing their stars. conversely, the big market clubs always have the dice loaded in their favor. big payrolls dont guarantee playoff spots, but they drastically improve your chances.

      the big market teams are the casino, we are the drunk spring-breakers. and the house always wins in the end.

      • Gavin says:

        And to go Brett one further, the only time small market teams do well, by catching lightning in a bottle, they always seem to do it in some amazing and unusual way. Oakland adopts Moneyball and they go out and find all the devalued players by using sabremetics but, now that big clubs have started using sabremetrics, the house has effectively cut out the card counters (to extend Brett’s analogy). Now when small market clubs do it, it’s because they either pull some amazing rabbit out of a hat and get an ace off the scrapheap (Erwin Santana) who is gone as soon as he can head to a big market club or because they throw a shit ton of money at very young players for a long term contract with the hope that the player is going to prove his worth years later. But big clubs can afford to do that and if they made a mistake, just eat the contract and move on. But when small market clubs do that, it cripples them for years.

        Yeah, it’s a tremendous feel good story when when Milwaukee makes the playoffs, but it sure does seem like an amazing correlation between high payrolls and World Series rings.

      • Brummy says:

        Well said Brett.

        It seems that as long as all the owners get rich, there will always be a rigged system. In 50 years will there be an asteric in the records for big market teams? (tongue in cheek)

        • kylerohde says:

          I typed all that stuff from the library program about concussions and only get a response to the baseball stuff. Sigh.

          Can we all agree that the Cardinals are not a bigger market than KC? Then how do the Cardinals keep winning, getting players, etc.? Because they do it right. The Red Sox won this year partially by dumping a lot of their high-priced acquisitions and building a better team. Granted, they still have a high payroll but the point stands that the right player mix makes a huge difference, I think.

          Here’s World Series winners by total salary rank in MLB:
          - 2013 (Red Sox): 5th
          - 2012 (Giants): 8th (behind the Marlins, Red Sox, and Yankees who were all not very good)
          - 2011 (Cards): 11th
          - 2010 (Giants): 9th
          - 2009 (Yankees): 1st
          - 2008 (Phillies): 12th (just under 100M total salaries, which is totally doable for the Royals)
          - 2007 (Red Sox): 2nd
          - 2006 (Cards): 11th
          - 2005 (White Sox): 13th (with a $78M payroll)
          - 2004 (Red Sox): 2nd
          - 2003 (Marlins): 25th

          Again, my point is that payroll can’t be the only excuse. Baseball is far more equitable than it used to be in this regard and the continued trend is that older players sign mega-contracts and aren’t worth it (See A-Rod, Texiera, Prince Fielder, Josh Hamilton, Pujols, etc.). Teams can be smart and re-sign the right guys, let others walk and build through the draft smartly. The Royals have done a crap job of developing pitchers and their position guys have only turned out ok. That’s the problem – not the payroll.

          They already did the right thing and wrapped up Perez and Gordon. Let Moose walk after this year and get Hosmer re-signed with the dumb money they are throwing at Beltran.

          Seriously, you cannot say payroll is an issue when they are throwing that kind of money at an aging, not worth it Beltran.

          • brett says:

            you are correct that small market teams avoid getting duped into signing washed up stars to mega-contracts. but not by choice. it sure would be nice for the royals to at least have the opportunity to consider whether to sign albert pujols. but the decision has been made for us.

            us small market folk need not worry our simple little minds with such important issues about whether to give a gimpy alex rodriguez a quarter billion.

            but i digress. the real problem is the inability to retain your homegrown talent once they become stars.

            fans watched carlos beltran emerge from the minor leagues and blossom into a star, only to see him walk because the royals couldn’t afford him.

            across the parking lot, those same fans watched a third round draft pick named jamaal charles emerge as the best running back in football. the team retained him on a five-year contract.

            there’s just something patently unfair about having your homegrown stars plucked from your grasp just as they reach their peak.

          • Gavin says:

            Kyle, the thing I note from your laundry list of salaries is that all but one of them is easily in the top half, nearly all of them are in the top third and that one-third of them are in the top-five in terms of payroll. And that’s only the World Series winners. That seems like a pretty strong correlation to me. And that doesn’t even include teams that won the pennant but didn’t win the Series. I have no idea, but I will bet you that pennant winners are similarly situated. If not for that one Marlins victory (that was, not for nothing a full decade ago) there would not be a single World Series winner in the bottom half of payroll.

            Does scouting and player development make a difference? Of course it does. But where you see a “tired” excuse in looking at payroll, I see numbers that sort of prove the very point.

            • kylerohde says:

              Beltran walked away from the Royals in a very different era of baseball. Revenue sharing isn’t anywhere near what it was, nor was the TV deal that MLB has anywhere near what it is now. I’d love to see a true salary cap in baseball, but that ain’t happening so it is what it is. Fact remains that there’s as much parity in baseball, in terms of winners, as any other major sport, like I said a couple weeks ago (http://greghallkc.com/index.php/otc-9-1-chiefs-still-in-sb-hunt-ku-fb-gets-a-win-does-snyder-still-hate-stoops/comment-page-1/#comment-35389). I know somebody questioned that number because it was only about the winner. Well, SI posted an article about which league had the most different teams with winning seasons and, again, MLB had the most – check that out here: http://www.fannation.com/blogs/post/452041-which-professional-sports-league-has-the-most-parity.

              The Royals have the revenue to consistently have a $85 – 100 million payroll. That doesn’t give them the ability to overpay a Texiera, Ellsbury and A-Rod while still possibly resigning Cano, a-la the Yanks. But it doesn’t preclude them resigning their most important guys, which they’re already doing (Gordon, Butler, Perez, Escobar already and Hosmer to come). Almost all baseball players peak in their mid-to-late 20′s. If teams use the salary structure correctly, that means you’re not doing the crazy free agent deals until players are 27 or older for the most part, when they’re getting past their prime. And that’s how you end up with Texiera, Ellsbury (likely), Hamilton, etc. which are bad deals anyway.

              The Royals can compete. The salary stuff just lessens their margin for error; it doesn’t automatically disqualify them.

              • Gavin says:

                Fair enough, but saying that the system lessens the margin for error sort of tacitly admits that the system isn’t fair. If all teams had the same margin for error, THEN it would be fair. But when one team can afford to sign a long-term prospect that goes bust and another team can’t and it’s systemic, not based on any failing of the team, well, t hat’s definitionally unfair. I’m all for teams haviong to live with mistakes, but the simple fact is that the Yankees don’t have to live with them the same way the Royals do. The Red Sox sign a player that ends up sucking, they cut him, pay him and move in. The Royals do it, they’r stuck with Mark Davis and no way to cut him or afford to pay him. And these are, again, advantages that are baked into the system. It’s MEANT to be this way.

              • Twy's Gibman says:

                I like much of your argument, but St. Louis is a very different market than KC. Bigger, and the team has so many more fans with a much larger regional pull than the Royals ever will have. Their history and the geographical history of MLB arguably makes them comparable to the Steelers of the NFL in that regard.

  9. Nick says:

    If the Royals are making a play for Beltran, it will be a wrong-headed move in a long history of them…

  10. hammy says:

    I think Mizzou fans have moved on. Would we play ku? Probably. But quite frankly just playing ku in basketball (the only thing they are good at) seems a bit lame. But not sure I want our schedule strength to take a hit by playing them in football. But I do miss having a game at Arrowhead.

  11. kcarmani says:

    Don’t think they can sue the Rams because they moved to Missouri after that loophole timeline…

  12. ao says:

    Typo Greg, it’s Fort Hays, not Hayes

  13. Alphonse Tooty says:

    I saw that Texas is looking to renew its football rivalry with A&M so I’m assuming Texas will allow KU to play Missouri again very soon.

  14. Pro From Dover says:

    I don’t really care if Mizzou and ku play. But I fail to understand why Mizzou takes all of the blame for putting ku and the Big 12 in a precarious position? Colorado….Nebraska….A$M all left before Mizzou. Does he make this same statement regarding those schools? This makes Self look childish imo. And it’s an arrogant statement to threaten to kill the big 12/sec challenge.

  15. Gavin says:

    Let me try and refrain this by asking one simple question of Mizzou fans: do you want to continue the game?

    If your answer is no, why are we still arguing? if your answer is because it’s just fun for you to call ku fans winners and little bitches, that’s fine. I get it. However, just admit you’re doing it because that’s why you’re doing.

    If your answer is, yes, you would like to continue to play the game, you do understand, don’t you, that KU does not want to play, right? Which means that we have the opportunity to deny you somefhing you want. Understand how that’s a win-win for us, don’t you?

    • Will says:

      Sorry Gavin, no win-win here. It’s a great rivalry game why not continue it right? No way we’re going to sit here and beg to do it though.

      Many ku fans want to continue it. Many MU fans and MU brass want to continue it. bill self, ku administration and some ku fans don’t. Until they climb out of the sand box and grow up, it’s not going to happen. We’ve all accepted that, and that is the reason it’s not being played.

      • Gavin says:

        Sorry, I wasn’t clear. I mean, win-win for KU fans. Either we get this huge game or we get to deny something to MU that they want. Is that petty? Absolutely 100% it’s petty. But it’s only sports. Who said we have to be rational and generous when it comes to sports? I’m sure that there are KU fans that want to continue, but I honestly believe that if you put it to a vote, most KU fans would say “Nah. I’m good.” A huge reason for that is because MU seems to want it so badly, but I think there’s also a significant amount of “I’m moving on with my sports life” to it as well.

        • Will says:

          No one on this side wants it “badly”. Many would like to play it but none of us obviously have to have it. We’re doing fine without it. More so the longer we go without it. The media will never let this die though. Have you ever noticed the large numbers in the comment counter any time this subject is brought up? The argument is not going away.

          • Gavin says:

            You are absolutely right. Greg certainly knows that this topic is clickbait and its pretty shameless the way he deploys it.

            • Ashley says:

              Let’s not blame Greg entirely here. The coach who answered the question could have said anything, but choose to make this statement. I love how when a player or coach makes an inflammatory statement in response to a question from the media, it’s the media’s fault for asking the question.

    • Mac6uffin says:

      Because the games are fun. Non-con is usually boring. Let’s spice it up.

  16. MightyMo says:

    I am an MU alum and a fan since birth. I grew up with the Mizzou, OU, and KU basketball of the 80’s and 90’s. Awesome. Love the rivalry and the Civil War history that backs up what is truly “bad blood”. But as the years pass, I am confident I can get by with the SEC rivalries. I do not remember a run as compelling as the SEC “must win” gauntlet Mizzou went through this year.

    An annual game on both sides would be nice, and I would attend, but its not a must. Interestingly, the Big XII is becoming less relevant without TAMU and Mizzou. Think of how the league would have been perceived differently with these two teams this year.

    The real challenge the Big XII faces is the collapse of Texas and OU football. They were the “Alabama” and “LSU” of the Big XII. Without them, it seems the conference is playing for a Fiesta Bowl bid, and fighting to not become the Pac 12.

  17. E. Jack Hewlett says:

    If those soccer guys complain about heading a ball that’s been kicked 60 yards on 20 degree weather, just more proof that this is a ” pussy” sport, as one hater put it.

    And greg, go out to sporting park on a cold night and the scarf thing will make sense.

  18. Joe Blow says:

    A few things:

    –I doubt Beltran is a *liability* in RF, but if he is, Myers is too.

    –Moustakas’ agent may be Boras, but at this point does anyone actually want the Royals to resign him? He’s dragging the team down as it is.

    –The Royals just extended the contract of their most successful GM in a couple decades, and Royals fans are pissed.

    –Didn’t Chris Martin make enough on those foam Arrowhead hand things in the ’90s?

    –The soccer “goons” aren’t the ones that flop and pretend to be hurt…they’re the ones that dive at the other teams feet without making contact.

    –Bill Self isn’t just against the Missouri rivalry — he’s against competition in general. All it does it make his team look bad.

    –As far as Bob Davis — I hope Greg is talking about his basketball talents, because holy crap was he bad at calling baseball..

    • Gavin says:

      “Bill Self isn’t just against the Missouri rivalry — he’s against competition in general. All it does it make his team look bad.”

      Holy shit. I never thought of it this way. All those years of scheduling Duke, Michigan State, Florida, Georgetown and Kentucky were a disguise meant to hide the fact that Bill Self is a pussy afraid to play good teams.

      /mind blown.

  19. DG says:

    Says he who speaks for all KU fans.

  20. Rico_suave says:

    Mizzou sold out the Big 12 and the great KU rivalry by jumping ship for a shot at more money in the Hee-Haw conference.

    Buh -Bye!!

    KU has done great without this so-called “SEC rivalry”, -if they try to
    force a MU match-up – screw ‘em.

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