OTC: Is Frank Haith’s Seat Warming Up At Mizzou? / KK Disses B12 Hoops / Peyton & Omaha

“You cannot look at the (MU) schedule and count wins because they just lost to the team a lot of people thought was the worst team in the conference and another that just suited up seven players.”
Gabe DeArmond, on MU’s loss at home to woeful Georgia and their loss Thursday night at Vandy, 810 AM
GH: What started out as a surprise season for Mizzou basketball with their 12-1 start and a home win over UCLA has quickly eroded into an SEC nightmare. Frank Haith was supposed to cruise to the NCAA tourney on the heels of his gaudy non-con record and the awfulness that is SEC basketball. But everything changed when Mizzou’s home-win streak was snapped by a poor Georgia team, a bad Auburn team pushed MU to the brink and then Vandy beat the Tigers with seven players. The second semester hasn’t even begun in Columbia but Haith’s seat just got a lot hotter.

“Mizzou had been the first team out of the poll after the Georgia loss and isn’t likely to climb back in now even with a win against Bama.”
Tod Palmer, @todpalmer, on MU playing Alabama (8-8) at Mizzou Arena Saturday at 1:00 PM, Twitter
GH: The SEC basketball schedule is the exact opposite than football. Playing conference games hurts your chances at climbing up the polls, not helps.  

“Even with Missouri’s 12-1 start, it is going to take at least 11-7 in this league to get you into the NCAA tournament. I think this is a three-bid league.”
Gabe DeArmond, 810 AM
GH: I heard Dave Armstrong say he thinks the Big 12 will place eight teams in the NCAA tourney this spring. We here in Kansas City are finding out firsthand just how awful SEC basketball is on a number of levels. I had no idea it would be this bad.

“Missouri’s offensive decision making just hasn’t been very good tonight. … Shot selection just has not been very good the entire evening for Missouri.”
Mike Kelly, radio play-by-play voice of Missouri basketball, during the second half of the Vanderbilt loss, Tiger Radio Network
GH: I listened to Kelly’s play-by-play for much of this game. He sounded professional but disgusted with much of the Tigers play. I appreciated that he did not try to blame Vandy, the refs or anything else. He was pointing his finger at Mizzou. Some like their college play-by-play guys to be homers. I do not.

“Vandy is a tired team right now!”
Gary Link, radio analyst for Mizzou basketball, Tiger Radio Network
GH: Link must have mentioned how tired and weary Vanderbilt’s seven players were ten times in the second half. He sounded like he was trying to verbally will these guys to drop over from fatigue to allow MU to win. It never happened. Link is way too much of a cheerleader for my ears.

“Mizzou players consistently blamed defensive mistakes, ‘confusion on D’ & miscommunication for tonight’s loss.”
Dave Matter, writer for the St. Louis Post Dispatch, Twitter
GH: Sounds like a coaching problem to me.

“Mizzou missed 12 layups according to the shot chart and was 6 of 23 from 3-point range.”
Tod Palmer, @todpalmer, MU beat writer for The Kansas City Star, on MU’s performance at Vandy, Twitter
GH: Sounds like a shitty players’ problem to me.

“Obviously, whatever the issue is it’s more important to Frank Haith than wins and losses. Because you’ve got to think that Tony Criswell could have helped (at Vanderbilt).”
Gabe DeArmond, on Criswell playing only 10 minutes against the Commodores, 810 AM
GH: Haith isn’t playing one of MU’s best players? So let’s find out why, Gabe! PowerMizzou.com is a paid service for Mizzou insider info and I expect those who pay would like to know. Or maybe Gabe was saving what he knows for his subscribers?

“Haith isn’t blameless, but like most college coaches, fans assign too much of it to him IMO.”
Gabe DeArmond, @GabeDeArmond, Twitter
GH: IMO college athletic departments assign too much salary to mediocre coaches. If Haith is cashing his checks, he deserves the heat from the MU fans.

“Far too often people associate losing with not trying, caring or playing hard. Teams don’t always win, but almost no player doesn’t want to.”
Gabe DeArmond, @GabeDeArmond, Twitter
GH: Wanting to win is rarely the issue – unless you’re Shoeless Joe Jackson. (I can imagine the seamheads queuing up now to defend SJJ’s memory.) Wanting to win is not enough. Paying the price to prepare to win and then making the effort during the game is what Mizzou fans are questioning about this Frank Haith team. This is such a puzzle to me. Haith’s first team was so, so, so fun to watch. He played that small lineup with Kim English guarding big guys and Phil Pressey dazzling us with his floor game. This version of the Tigers looks like Haith got his players mixed up with the MU wrestling team.  

“One of the many good things about being in the SEC is nobody else in the conference gives you a bunch of grief for losing basketball games.”
@MizzouKCfan4, Twitter
GH: This is sad. Tiger fans are now relegated to being happy they can suffer their basketball losses without KU fans tweeting them nasty notes? It is NOT progress that no one in the SEC cares enough about basketball that you are left to suffer in silence. It’s a damn shame.

“This is all you need to know about the Big 12 – and this is no disrespect to the players or the coach. Bruce Weber is 19-2 since he got to K-State. This can’t be a great league because that’s not a great team. That’s a good team. That’s a good coach. But it can’t be a great league if Bruce Weber with his players at K-State has gone 19-2 against the rest of this league (outside of KU) since he got here. There’s no way this is a great league. I like the Big 12 and I’m trying to be fair here. There’s no way this is the best league! That’s impossible!”
Kevin Kietzman, 810 AM
GH: Kietzman is just a weird, sad dude. He is so frustrated with his Wildcats and Weber not being able to beat or be competitive with Bill Self and Kansas that he feels the need to diminish and disregard all the great wins and play that Weber has brought to Kansas State in his first two seasons – not to mention KSU’s first conference basketball title since 1977!

“You can say that but I think there are plenty of other teams that we hail as great and the Big 12 goes out and plays some of these schools in the non-conference and beats them. … I think this league has comparable teams to the top five in the Big 10. … I didn’t think K-State would beat Oklahoma State or Gonzaga, so I’m done dissing K-State.”
Jason King, college basketball writer for BleacherReport.com, responding to Kietzman comment about Big 12 basketball, 810 AM

“Never realized how much more unsettling Willie the Wildcat is without shoulder pads and football pants. Must have had a horrible childhood.”
David Ubben, @davidubben, Twitter
GH: Isn’t it time K-State ditched Willy and got a real mascot? Or at least one with a complete outfit? Willy looks more like a guy heading home from a Halloween party than a DI mascot.

“If (Baylor’s) Scott Drew is the worst coach in your league, and I think you can make a pretty good case that he is, you’ve got a pretty good league!”
Danny Clinkscale, 810 AM
GH: No college coach gets more disrespect around the Big 12 than Homer’s kid. But would Mizzou take what Drew’s done at Baylor? I can’t think of too many struggling programs that wouldn’t be happy with a perennial top-20 team that typically disappoints in the end.

“If Wiggins isn’t in foul trouble I think you’re going to see him on Marcus Smart a lot.”
Rustin Dodd, Kansas beat writer for the Kansas City Star, 810 AM
GH: Oklahoma State will be at Allen Fieldhouse Saturday afternoon and this matchup between Smart and Wiggins will be one the nation will be tuning in to watch. Wiggins has shown he plays at a different level when he’s challenged so we should see him at his best. Smart always plays like it’s his last game and he is the guy who was doing backflips after OSU’s win at AFH last season so he will be one of the crowd’s favorite targets. 3:00 PM on CBS.

“Will say this once (until someone gets hurt): There is no proper etiquette for court storm. You paid for seat, not to invade playing field.”
Michael DeCourcy, @tsnmike, Twitter
GH: Will say this once…or maybe 437 times: people in the media who chastise college kids for storming their home court after a win are far more embarrassing than a few hundred kids having fun. Let’s harken back to the great Frank Haith’s words of wisdom; “Cool will get you beat.” Quit trying to be so cool everybody and let the college kids be kids.

“I’ve had a lot of people ask what Omaha means. Omaha is a run play but it could be a pass play or a play-action pass, depending on a couple things; the wind, which way we’re going, the quarter, and uh the jerseys that we’re wearing. So it varies really, play to play. So, there’s your answer to that one.”
Peyton Manning, WDAF TV FOX 4
GH: When I hear Peyton yell my hometown’s name I think of all the other neighborhoods and suburbs he could also promote. Familiar neighborhoods like Benson, Dundee, Little Italy, Sheelytown, Field Club, Ralston, Millard and my old stomping grounds – South Omaha or Brown Park. Omaha isn’t known for a lot of grandeur or as a popular destination so it’s fun for me to see Peyton give it 15 minutes of fame. I know the folks up north are enjoying it as well. Maybe we can get Alex Smith to yell, “Strawberry Hill,” next season.

and Twitter @greghall24

About Greg Hall

Software guy who has been writing my Off The Couch column in KC newspapers, publications and websites since 1994. Has been bounced from some of the finest media establishments this side of State Line Road. Dad first and everything else second...and there are a lot of everything elses.

50 Responses to OTC: Is Frank Haith’s Seat Warming Up At Mizzou? / KK Disses B12 Hoops / Peyton & Omaha

  1. Navin Johnson says:

    Omaha, Omaha wasn’t quite as cool when Matt Cassel was yelling it every other play for the Chiefs. Didn’t see the Chamber of Commerce putting it’s weight behind ol’ No. 7, did you?

  2. John says:

    Greg…I’m not a Frank Haith apologist by any means..but I don’t buy your thought that Mizzou fans might prefer Scott Drew over Haith. Granted, Drew has recruited very well….but if my info is correct since 2003 he has taken Baylor to 3 NCAA tournament appearances. Haith has gone to 2 NCAA tourneys in 2 seasons at Mizzou. Drew has taken Baylor to 2 elite 8′s in that time. Mizzou has been to 1 elite 8 since Drew has been at Baylor.

    Again…I’m not saying Haith is the answer at Mizzou. But as a Mizzou fan… if Mizzou fired Haith and hired Drew I would not see that as a significant improvement.

    • Richard Cranium says:

      You do realize you are comparing BAYLOR (who hasn’t put a winning team on a basketball court since they were killing people) and Missouri. A team with a supposed great basketball tradition. Now you have a coach that is perennially taking his team to the tournament and winning games, and ranked. And Missouri once again is failing with a coaching hire. Get realistic. It won’t be long and it’ll be another example of ISU football, thinking they are bigger than they are, and continuing to fail in hiring coaches. Either way it’s enjoyable watching the degradation of the Slavers anyway.

  3. dg says:

    So for all those that put together arguments stating that SEC football is weak as shown by MU and A&M success – does the inverse argument now hold true as to Big 12 basketball being weak considering how poorly MU is doing in the SEC? As a reminder it was just 2 years ago that MU won the Big 12 Tournament…

  4. Brian says:

    Greg,

    You know what is going to happen. At some point QBs will start getting approached by companies and be offered a nice chunk of change to yell out their company name on the line of scrimmage. GOPRO!! GOPRO!! CIALIS!! CIALIS!! or for christ sakes TROJANS!!! TROJANS!!!

    • TangoAlphaLima says:

      Now this is a great idea. Alex Smith, it’s time to change up the verbage. BLUE CROSS BLUE SHIELD OF KANSAS CITY!!! THE UNIVERSITY OF KANSAS MEDICAL CENTER!!! SHEET METAL WORKERS LOCAL UNION NUMBER 2!!! Hut, hut, hike!

  5. Chris says:

    Jason King will never “stop dissing K-State”. He’s 100% beaker.

  6. kylerohde says:

    Did you listen to the interview? King was saying KSU was a better team than Kietzman thought and was defending them, so calling a Baylor graduate a beaker for defending KSU couldn’t be much more wrong. The guy was a KU beat writer for the Star and smartly cashed in on that knowledge by writing a darn good book about KU basketball. That doesn’t make him a KU homer.

    Greg, you might update that quote from KK to reflect the fact that the 19-2 record is against the Big XII other than KU.

    As far as court storming being dangerous, I’m not as worried as DeCourcy – that worries me a lot more at football games. But it was sad that a school with five national title banners rushed the court after beating Wisconsin, a darn good team this year but one with nowhere near the history and tradition of Indiana.

    Personally, these schools should never rush the court, in no particular order: KU, UNC, Duke, IU, UK, UCLA, Mich St. I’d also add Florida, Wisconsin, Syracuse, and maybe Oklahoma State to that list too. “Kids being kids” celebrating is a lame excuse. Celebrate in the stands, scream loud, go get loaded after the game, whatever. But storming the court is a statement that “our team is so bad we’re shocked they won” and those schools I named shouldn’t ever be shocked that they win. I remember my sophomore year at KU, KU and Texas were both top 10 but Texas was higher-ranked. This was the game Nick Collison got a standing O from Dickie V and a group of maybe 10-15 students rushed the court at the end when KU won, and the rest of us booed them and chanted “get off the court”. Call me a stuck-up beaker, but I was so happy to see my peers having more pride in our program than a silly desire to join a small mob on the court. Rock Chalk.

    • sporty says:

      Yet, they storm the football field after beating West Virginia. Ku basketball arrogance never ceases to amaze me.

      • Kyle says:

        Any school that has lost 26 straight conference games has the right to storm. Basketball or football.

      • kylerohde says:

        I was embarrassed by that field storming, almost as embarrassed as I was when we did it three times my senior year, though I stayed in the stands for all of those.

      • Biff says:

        We were going to storm the field after KU beat WVU but had to leave after the game to make a party for my kid. Nothing wrong with storming the court/field fans just having some fun.

        • Guy Who Says What Others Think says:

          For the record, Jason King admits he knew about the ticket scandal at KU and sat on the story for months and didn’t report on it.

    • Greg Hall says:

      Kyle, I will make that clarification. Thanks.

  7. Hoppy says:

    KK has such odd angles/takes. He tries to trump up the big12 as some sort of powerhouse football conference even better than the SEC…which is completely absurd, Then turns around and downplays big12 basketball as being just a meh conference at basketball which is equally absurd. i guess he tries to trump up big12 football to make emaw more relevant and downplay mizzou’s success and in basketball try to diminish ku.I guess its just an insecure thing b/c outside of him noone hardly pays kstate attention despite being quite the athletic program. i don’t listen to him anymore, but i am glad greg does b/c i can get the amusement of his takes w/o having to actually listen to them

  8. Java Man says:

    If kids just stayed home and watched the game on the big screen, like the rest of us old timers, storming the court wouldn’t be an issue. Spontaneity is one of the best parts of youth.

  9. JP says:

    This is why KK’s show is unintentionally entertaining. His opinion about Big XII basketball is totally opposite of the opinions of the experts he brings on. Jason King covers college hoops for a living, and I think is in a better position to judge the relative strengths of the conferences. The Tournament will be a deciding factor as well. However, KK’s bashing of the league must be related to being PO’d that KU beats his team whenever they play on the hardwood. His takes are so inconsistent on this point. If K State had beaten KU, he would be talking about how the Big XII is so great and doesn’t get any respect. Just enjoy the fact that K State has a good team KK and quit the pity party.

    BTW, great game this weekend. KU avenges their loss against Okie State In a close game 81-76. Ok State is still a player for the league title, and it should be fun to watch.

  10. Kerouac says:

    “Maybe we can get Alex Smith to yell, “Strawberry Hill,” next season.”

    - or, “catch the ball you a**h***s!” (and keep your feet in bounds!)

  11. Richard Cranium says:

    I’m surprised (absolutely not) by the lack of Missouri comments about their team. A month ago there would be 80 comments on the topic of Miseri anything. Today, bupkis. Bandwagon thy name is Slaver Tigers.

  12. Guy Who Says What Others Think says:

    Missouri’s current team is a reflection of what happens when you gather a bunch of talented malcontents and try to lump them into a team. Doesn’t always work. These are guys that when confronted with tough situations, took the easy way out, packed up and went elsewhere. None have the fortitude to do what it takes to win tough games. Missouri fans in general, aren’t buying into this team. And for good reason.

    • Richard Cranium says:

      Damn fine work here. I totally accept this argument.

    • The Word says:

      Missouri has Arkansas disease. Talented team that can’t win on the road.

      At home they can beat anyone in the conference. But on the road…that’s another story. Don’t be shocked if they sweak by Kentucky at home this year. But yet again, get destroyed in Florida. Split with the Razorbacks, Vols and they might get beat at Ole Miss.

      • Guy Who Says What Others Think says:

        It’s not so much the Arkansas Disease..it should be called “Mike Anderson Disease”. That guy has literally won about 3 true road games while at Arkansas, regardless of the level of competition. The bloom is off the rose down in Fayetteville for Suitcase Mike. He’ll be lucky if he survives next season

  13. craniumisadummy says:

    go eat a bag of dicks Beaker

  14. Biff says:

    Kevin Kietzman, 810 AM
    GH: Kietzman is just a weird, sad dude. He is so frustrated with his Wildcats and Weber not being able to beat or be competitive with Bill Self and Kansas that he feels the need to diminish and disregard all the great wins and play that Weber has brought to Kansas State in his first two seasons – not to mention KSU’s first conference basketball title since 1977!

    KK is just trolling trying to get listeners fired up with the dumb stuff he says.. I hope most people know its an act, nobody can be that dumb to believe the things KK says.
    I give KK credit it has worked but most get tired and just ignore what he says and hope he has some good guests.

  15. john doe says:

    Vandy hits three after three over the zone, and what does Haith do? Keeps them in a zone.
    Missouri missed three after three and what did they do? Kept shooting from three.

    Haith is a good recruiter of guards and transfers, but he better start getting some good bigs, or Alden is looking for his 4th HC in 15 years.

    NIT or best 2014.

  16. Kansas Marine says:

    “This is all you need to know about the Big 12 – and this is no disrespect to the players or the coach. Bruce Weber is 19-2 since he got to K-State. This can’t be a great league because that’s not a great team. That’s a good team. That’s a good coach. But it can’t be a great league if Bruce Weber with his players at K-State has gone 19-2 against the rest of this league (outside of KU) since he got here. There’s no way this is a great league. I like the Big 12 and I’m trying to be fair here. There’s no way this is the best league! That’s impossible!”
    Kevin Kietzman, 810 AM

    Like many of KK’s outlandish comments, this isn’t true. Last season KSU dropped the following conference games:

    -1/22/13 vs Kansas 59-55
    -1/26/13 at Iowa State 73-67
    -2/11/13 at Kansas 83-62
    -3/9/13 at Oklahoma State 76-70
    -3/16/13 vs Kansas 70-54
    -1/11/14 at Kansas 86-60

    Weber has lost 6 Big 12 games while at KSU, including all four matchups with Kansas. As usual, Kevin making up info to fit his argument.

    • Kyle Rohde says:

      You just proved his math to be correct – he said 2 losses outside of KU.

    • Biff says:

      Bruce is still wining Huggy’s , and Frank martin recruits. When Weber was at Illinois the first two year he was 28-4 in the big 10 with Bill Self”s recruits. Then Weber went on to destroy the Illinois program. In his last three years he was 25-29.

      KK just says stuff to get a group of people mad , it an act just like most talk shows do today. Create controversy where there is none. Why do people take him serious ,he is just an entertain and good at fooling some.

      • yuri says:

        Who on this team was recruited by Huggy? The freshmen on the team include the leading scorer and some of the better players on the team. (Marcus Foster, Jevon Thomas, Wesley Iwundu). Combine that with the 2 transfers working out with the team for next year, Bruce is doing pretty well so far from a recruiting perspective (relative to Frank especially).

        • Kansas Marine says:

          “Bruce is doing pretty well so far from a recruiting perspective (relative to Frank especially).”

          Are you serious? Frank brought you Mcgruder, Southwell, Rodriguez, Clemente, and Gipson.

          Foster is a nice player, but he’s also shooting under 40% from the field. He’s also a product of volume. Someone has to take the shots. I assure you that KSU would have been better with Martin at the helm.

        • Biff says:

          Southwell the best player on KSU was from the Huggy /Delonte Hill pipeline. Gibson, Nino ans Spradling are Franks. Foster may be a good guard but when Southwell and Gibson leave he may be it and have a harder time.
          Weber is getting into recruiting battles with mid major teams.

          • yuri says:

            Not arguing frank’s kids (and shane is frank’s) but huggy coached in 2006-2007.

            Lot of minutes and points coming from weber recruits.

  17. yuri says:

    I get that Willie probably seems odd to non-KSU folks, but I don’t Wildcat fans calling for a change, too much tradition.

    When I was in school, (85-89), the guy being Willie would get in the layup line with the visitors at Ahearn (Stacy King and Mookie Blaylock loved it). He could dunk the basketball. He body-checked Twibell while skating live on ESPN during the pre-game. You can’t do any of that in a full suit.

    Bottom line, if they aren’t your mascot, they are most likely a little creepy anyway. I think I would dial 911 if I saw my kid standing by these two:

    http://static.flickr.com/3275/3024324418_562ef233d7.jpg

  18. john says:

    Yeah, this is a down year for the SEC. However, if you compare the Final Fours and Championships of the SEC and the Big 12, it’s not even close. The whole SEC sucks in basketball narrative is just a temporary talking point for bitter Big 12 fans.

    Kansas’ dominance is no doubt impressive, but their dominance is mainly the product of a conference that has no other real national contenders, either long-term or even in a given year over the course of that span. Who has there been? Maybe Texas in the early 2000′s before Kansas’ run began? Even this year, when the Big 12 is supposedly so strong, how many legitimate Final Four contenders are their in January? At most, two and there will likely be none.

  19. Biff says:

    John what are you talking about?? WTF??
    Since 2000 five schools form the Big 12 have made the final four. there are five coaches in the big 12 that have taken teams to the final four. How many teams from the SEC have made the final four -3 and only 2 coaches have made the final four.
    The SEC is a turd and everyone knows it. UK cares about Bball, Fla does some. The rest of the SEC does not care. SEC only got 3 teams in the dance last year. mis majors do better than the SEC.

    • john says:

      How many championships has each conference won in the last ten years? How about the last 25? If the SEC is a “turd” what is the Big 12?

    • john says:

      And what are these 5 teams that have made the final four from the Big 12? Did TCU slip one in there that I missed?

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