OTC: What If MU Had Hired Bill Self In 1999? / Twitter Is Much Like Sports Talk Radio

“There is not a Missouri fan out there who doesn’t think about this Bill Self thing.”
Jack Harry, referring to MU choosing to hire Duke assistant, Quin Snyder, over Illinois’ head coach, Bill Self in 1999, 810 AM

“This would have been the worst things in the history of Missouri basketball if they would have hired (Bill Self). He would have left!”
Kevin Kietzman, insisting if Mizzou would have hired Self back when they interviewed him and Quin Snyder, Self would have left Missouri once the Kansas job opened up with Coach Roy’s departure, 810 AM
GH: How well does Kevin Kietzman know Missouri basketball history? And he thinks hiring Bill Self would have been the worst thing to happen to the Tigers basketball program? And KK doesn’t understand why he has earned the label a radio shock jock? 

“(Kansas) wouldn’t have hired a Missouri coach.”
Todd Leabo, 810 AM
GH: The fantasy scenario of Self taking the MU job back in 1999 is too delicious to not ponder. Would Self have built MU into the juggernaut that is Kansas? Would he have left MU for the KU job once Roy bolted? Would KU turn their crimson noses up at the thought of hiring Missouri’s coach? There is a great 30-for-30 segment here awaiting ESPN’s caressing and cameras.

“If (Mizzou) can’t get up for these last two games, why should they play in the NIT?”
Jack Harry, who said he was criticized by MU fans for tweeting out that if Missouri is invited to the NIT they should decline it, 810 AM
GH: The reason you turn down an NIT invitation is because you feel slighted by the NCAA committee or your program is so awash in basketball greatness that an NIT title would be worthless in your trophy case. Mizzou is not in any position to turn down any postseason bids. Playing in the NIT should be far more attractive to MU than becoming road kill for a top seed in the NCAA’s first round.  

“I think he’s wrong. You don’t want to filter your business down to just Kansas fans. He’s just blasting away at Missouri. What kind of a knucklehead business owner is doing that? He’s excluding people! Can you imagine?”
Kevin Kietzman, after the owner of Heyward’s BBQ allegedly posted some inflammatory comments online about Mizzou basketball, 810 AM

“I feel very comfortable in my coverage of college basketball this season. Because I’ve been crapped on by all three local (fans bases).”
Soren Petro, 810 AM
GH: I read a lot of local fans who think Petro is a closet Kansas apologist. I don’t see it. Petro comes off to me as a Syracuse grad who thinks Big 12 basketball is beneath his interest. I don’t think he favors KU or any local team. I don’t think he cares enough to be biased. 

“Bob Knight has been enabled by every employer including ESPN. Hoping ESPN’s new management crew finds the stones to end the nonsense.”
Richard Deitsch, @richarddeitsch, as Knight worked the Arkansas win at Kentucky Thursday night, Twitter
GH: Three cheers for Deitsch’s tweet and his willingness to hammer Bob Knight for his dreadful TV work. ESPN has its share of on-air deadweight but Knight’s laziness coupled with his arrogance is beyond any I have encountered. Even banishing him to the SEC is not a deep enough hell for the former Hoosier coach. 

“If you’re a guy who is put off by a woman doing (play-by-play or color analyst work) for a game you’re probably a chauvinist pig.”
Bob Fescoe, after criticizing some people on Twitter who made unkind remarks about the work of two women broadcasters doing college basketball recently, 610 AM
GH: Why can’t a woman’s broadcast work be just as rudely critiqued as a man’s? Fescoe jumps to the conclusion that if you don’t like a woman in the broadcast booth, you don’t like her because of her gender. While that may be true, it also just might be true the gal’s no good.

“Interesting how many poll voters cite overall resumes. This time of year, I don’t look at it that way. More where do you stand now.”
Seth Davis, @SethDavisHoops, on his criteria for making the NCAA tournament, Twitter
GH: Davis makes some sense here. Does it really matter as much that Arkansas lost to Mizzou at home a month ago as winning at Kentucky last night? If the Hogs are twice as good now as they were in December, why not reward them with a bid, despite their lousy overall resume?

“(Iowa’s head coach) Fran McCaffery says his overall impressions of social media are negative and that he’d prefer his players keep their focus on Iowa’s upcoming games. He said his players are free to resume tweeting once the season is over.”
Associated Press, after the Iowa coach banned his players from Twitter for the rest of the season

“Are we going to get to a place in the season where college coaches say, ‘That’s it! No more Twitter?’ I think the coaches are right in this decision and I think the coaches are wrong.”
Kevin Kietzman, after Rick Pitino and Iowa’s Fran McCaffery banning their players from Twitter, 810 AM
GH: Kietzman’s rants about Twitter and how it can lead to so much negativity for a player or team reminds me of those who used to call sports talk radio a wasteland. How does allowing 810 and 610 interview players and coaches help Kansas, Kansas State or Missouri? Does it really sell more tickets? Or does it simply increase the probability for a dumb or embarrassing sound bite that can haunt the player or coach for the next decade?

“Marcus Smart is one of the top five players in the country. I don’t care what you say or think of his on-court antics. The guy is a stud.”
Greg Gurley, on the Oklahoma State sophomore, 810 AM
GH: KU and OSU at 8:00 PM on Saturday night in Stillwater. ESPN Gameday will be there to add some juice to this hoops rivalry. This one should be a dandy. BTW, can you imagine you great Smart would have been if he had picked KU over OSU? His aggressive style of play would have made him one of Kansas’ most popular players in the school’s history. Instead, he is one of the most hated. History is funny that way.

“How would you like to be under doctor’s orders to sit and watch basketball?”
Steven St. John, in his opening line for a radio ad promoting vasectomies, 810 AM
GH: You have to hand it to the copy writer who came up with this line of reasoning. I think I’ll stay with sneaking away from my desk for long lunches.

[email protected] and Twitter @greghall24

About Greg Hall

Software guy who has been writing my Off The Couch column in KC newspapers, publications and websites since 1994. Has been bounced from some of the finest media establishments this side of State Line Road. Dad first and everything else second...and there are a lot of everything elses.
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59 Responses to OTC: What If MU Had Hired Bill Self In 1999? / Twitter Is Much Like Sports Talk Radio

  1. D says:

    If Mizzou had hired Self, there is no way in hell that he would’ve taken the Kansas job. KU wouldn’t have wanted him anyway. Most likely, he would’ve done what he did at Illinois and eventually he would’ve taken the Kentucky job instead of Gillispie. Kansas would’ve probably ended up with Calipari. So really, the college basketball landscape would’ve been different but not THAT much different. Of course, as a Mizzou fan, I can’t help but think of woulda coulda shoulda.

    • mike t. says:

      fun to speculate, d, but I don’t know. assume self had been hired by mizzou, the question then really becomes would KU have recruited a mizzou coach when coach roy left? I think if they had (and have no clue if they would), i believe self would have jumped to KU as it is a more prestigious gig than mizzou. coaches don’t have quite the same loyalty as the fan bases.

      • kylerohde says:

        I agree Self would want the job, but no way would KU have offered it to a Mizzou coach. Just like Mangino wouldn’t be a bad candidate to take over for Snyder at K-State, but they wouldn’t dare hire a coach that KU fired, regardless of circumstance.

        • yuri says:

          Kyle, Mangino burned his bridges in Manhattan based on the way he left for OU. (In a much worse manner than the Stoops and Venables). He then proceeded to pee on the ashes when he got to KU, but he was hated before he got there.

          Someone like Zenger with ties to both schools, or a more successful Tim Jankovich, or even Mark Turgeon makes for interesting discussions as well.

          • kylerohde says:

            Can you give some more detail? I don’t remember all that when Mangino was hired so interested to hear more.

            • yuri says:

              So, when Bobby got the job, members of the defensive staff (brother Mike, Brent Venables, maybe another 1 or 2) quickly made it known they were leaving. MM was close to the Stoops, and was recruiting coordinator for KSU. Bill asked MM if he was leaving, because if so, he would have someone else be recruiting coordinator. MM said no, wasn’t leaving. Later, changed his mind and went to OU. Recruited a number of KSU recruits to OU, badmouthing ksu, potentially doing some of that while on the KSU payroll. Pretty poor treatment for the man (Snyder) who hired you out of a toll booth.

              • kylerohde says:

                Dang, that’s pretty low if all true. Thanks Yuri.

                • Hunter says:

                  My brother played on that team. He said that Stoops told everyone he was leaving at halftime of a game. Several of the Junior players had to be restrained from going after him. And he was liked, no one like Mangino.

      • January says:

        I don’t think KU would have hired Self, but he would have left for OSU.

        • Markus Aurelius says:

          I agree. He wouldn’t leave KU for his alma mater but I’m guessing he would have left MU for OSU.

    • Navin Johnson says:

      I don’t think Self would have been offered the kansas job if he were coaching at Mizzou. But I don’t think there’s any way Self would still be at Mizzou if he were hired back in 1999. I think either Oklahoma State would have hired him away when Eddie Sutton retired. Or the lure of the NBA would have come calling. Or quite possibly a blueblood (besides kansas) like Kentucky or UCLA would have hired Self away from Mizzou. Kurtis Townsend or Norm Roberts would be coaching Mizzou right now if Bill Self would have been hired instead of Snyder.

    • jerk says:

      I highly doubt we would have hired Self away from Missouri. Definitely could see Self leaving Mizzou for Kentucky though or even a UCLA instead of Howland. KU wouldn’t have hired Calipari though in 03. That was still the beginning of his rebuild at Memphis. He’d just lost in the first round of the tourney (1st he’d taken memphis to) in his 3rd year at the school. I’m not real sure who KU would have hired at that point but Calipari’s name was still sh*t. Nobody had to earn it back like ‘ol Cal had to.

  2. Jim says:

    Self going to MU for 4 or 5 years and making them a powerhouse in the Big 12 would have been a bad thing? Kinda like Huggins going to KSU and resurrecting that program was a bad thing? Look at the springboard effect that KSU hire had on their program even though Huggins only stayed around a couple of years.

    • RIchard Cranium says:

      I’m not necessarily disagreeing that Huggins re-energized the KSU fan base, but I believe it was the recruits he had in his back pocket that got the fan base going, and then winning. Huggins is a pretty good coach, but those players he brought were fantastic. Winning begets winning I suppose. Until Weber has to start recruiting new ones. Then it’s over the cliff they go again.

  3. feto says:

    “I think he’s wrong. You don’t want to filter your business down to just Kansas fans. He’s just blasting away at Missouri. What kind of a knucklehead business owner is doing that? He’s excluding people! Can you imagine?”
    Kevin Kietzman, after the owner of Heyward’s BBQ allegedly posted some inflammatory comments online about Mizzou basketball, 810 AM

    What kind of knucklehead filters down potential advertisers for their radio station by blasting them?

    • JP says:

      The problem with KK is that if it was a K State fan, he would be praising them, saying that the K State fanbase will stick by the business. Because it’s a KU fan, he goes mental and starts blasting away. I hope KU fans remember that if they are choosing to spend advertiser dollars down the road.

      • Kansas Marine says:

        Right you are. Every comment, theory & opinion comes from beneath his KSU glasses. What I don’t understand is why people still listen to this clown.

  4. Tim says:

    “Playing in the NIT should be far more attractive to MU than becoming road kill for a top seed in the NCAA’s first round.”
    Are you out of your mind? Seriously? So if Nebraska were to make it to the NCAA tourney you would prefer they go to the NIT instead? Do you realize how ludicrous you sound?

    • Kyle says:

      Yeah, what exactly are you talking about Greg? The NIT is not real basketball. They are playing for 69th place. You take an NCAA bid 1000 times out of 1000.

  5. Ptolemy says:

    Much as I detest Kansas, Self wouldn’t have had the success at Missouri he’s enjoyed at Kansas simply because Missouri didn’t have Roy before Self. Did he turn Illinois or Tulsa into national powers? They were good, but not Kansas good. Self wouldn’t have left Missouri for Kansas. Coaches don’t do that unless they’re desperate.

    • Kyle says:

      Self took Tulsa to the Elite 8 as well as Illinois, and we saw the talent he left behind as they went to the title game the year after he left. Slowly down hill ever since. If I was an Illinois fan, I would understand Self for leaving for a better program, but I would always hold a grudge. Illinois would have been a perennial Big 10 champ under him.

      • mike t. says:

        kyle, I have two brothers who live in IL, one in champagne. my two sisters-in-law both went to Illinois. believe me, a lot of illini fans are still holding a grudge over self leaving.

    • mike t. says:

      I don’t recall exactly the state of affairs norm left MU in, but as I recall it was no slouch program, right? maybe not with the talent roy had, but still…

      • Kyle says:

        mu had lost 65 games over Norm’s last 5 years. Not exactly stellar.

      • JP says:

        Missouri had just made a tournament appearance and had some quality players. Norm was basically “forced out” by some of the big money alumni because he was having trouble recruiting. That was the impetus for bringing in Quin Snyder. He was Coach K’s right hand guy, and Duke had just barely failed to win the National Championship in 1999. If you recall, that Duke team dominated College Basketball that season, and Snyder had recruited many of the gems that led Duke (Corey Meghette among others).

        Missouri was on an upward trajectory when Norm retired, and all the MU fans I knew were loving having a Duke guy to compete with Roy (with his Carolina ties). Having said that, I agree with the others that Self would have stayed until the big time job opened (Kentucky, Carolina, that class of job).

        • HARLEY says:

          sorry boys….but norm wasn’t forced out because of recruiting. Give bill self the talent norm had and mu wins probably 2 or 3 national championships. Norm wore out…not a great coach..had incredible talent coming from around the country but could not mesh it into a team that could go deep into the tournament. also…big 12 wasn’t as dominant during many of norms
          Norm was a tough guy to work with and for. The athletic
          department disliked the guy….some of the notes he put out
          were horrendous.
          Many were glad to see him leave.
          but to handle someone with no head cpaching experience
          was a mistake.
          now that they’ve got millions flowing in alden better it
          right this time…5-6 million and you brig in a top 10 coach and put the program at the top of the league. Alden is a businssman but he better get a better consultant this time in pciking a’ new bball coach. Haith sucks…can’t coach…decent recruiting but
          now with the national exposure and the soon to be
          redirection of the sec to other sports outside football….
          (they own football…its time to move up in bball and clean out all the 3rd tier coaches in the league)….its gonna happen…too
          much money sitting in the sec teams bank accounts…look for sec to wake it up and make itself the greatest sports league
          ov4erall in college …..

  6. Smith says:

    GH: BTW, can you imagine you great Smart would have been if he had picked KU over OSU? His aggressive style of play would have made him one of Kansas’ most popular players in the school’s history. Instead, he is one of the most hated. History is funny that way.

    Totally disagree. Not a chance in hell Smart’s a-hole attitude and flopping BS would’ve flown in Self’s program for long. That kid would’ve been straightened out or shipped out. One of several reasons why big money Ok State boosters want Travis Ford gone.

  7. glorious uproar says:

    I don’t think about Bill Self at Missouri. People forget that Quin had a good run when he was in Columbia. When he was hired, he was one of the young up and comers in coaching. He was very good at recruiting and getting high school stars like Paulding, Gardner, Johnson, Bryant, Lyons, Kleiza. He made a few mistakes while he was there, on and off the court, but it was a good hire.

    • Jim says:

      No doubt there were some pretty good highlights during his tenure, but in the end the overall record wasn’t very impressive. Quin was way more style than substance.

      • glorious uproar says:

        The problem was he gave a kid with no clothes a hoodie and some flip flops and a few meals, which is a no-no. You will never convince me that doesn’t happen at other schools. That kid was already in trouble and ended up speaking out, and took the program down with him.

    • D says:

      Yes, Quin recruited some talent but the overall body of work, including the off the court issues (Ricky Clemons), if you consider the shape he left the program in when he resigned, it was a disaster of a hire. No other way to describe it.

  8. Gavin says:

    In no particular order:

    I thought that when Mizzou hired Snyder, they hit a home run. I was absolutely certain that he was going to be the guy that took Mizzou to consistent top-ten finishes. So that clearly shows what a judge I am of coaching talent, I guess. But if memory serves, and I could be wrong about this, wasn’t Bill Self the coach at Tulsa when all of this went down? It wasn’t like Mizzou turned down Bill Self in his Illinois years. I can’t believe I’m defending Mizzou, but I don’t think the decision was as clear back then as it was in hindsight. I mean, LOL Mizzou and everything and thank god they hired Snyder, but let’s not pretend like this decision was as obvious then as it is with the benefit of 10-15 years of experience in the can.

    And I agree that there is no way that KU hires a Missouri coach after Roy leaves. I also doubt seriously that Bill Self expresses any interest in the job coming straight from Mizzou. I just don’t see how it could happen. At that point I think the answer would have been Larry Brown as a 3-5 year caretaker although obviously that[s just wild speculation.

    And Greg, it’s completely fair to criticize a woman calling a game for her play-by-play chops. But it’s a little disingenuous for you to trot that out here when you have personally gone after Doris Burke not for how she calls a game but for her being physically unattractive and generally not fuckable enough to suit you. Bob Knight deserves every criticism you’ve ever given him, but I’ve never seen you comment on how hot he is, but I have seen you comment on Burke’s physical appearance and how you’ve found it wanting. You may (or may not) like the way she calls a game but you certainly don’t restrict your criticism of women in the booth to their ability to do their job.

    Did Kietzman really say “I think the coaches are right in this decision and I think the coaches are wrong.” That doesn’t make any sense at all.

  9. sporty says:

    Marcus Smart is only hated by ku fans because he chose osu. He also beat them on their own court and had the “nerve” to be happy about it. I liked Marcus Smart last year and like him even more this year. I hope he score 30 on ku tomorrow, if only to listen and read whiny ku “fans” bitch about him.

    • mike t. says:

      well, I don’t ‘hate’ him, but definitely hated that ku lost to them at afh. could care less about him being happy about it or not. but i’ll definitely whine and bitch if he puts on his fake flopping show and gets away with it again. osu will definitely be tough at home, but I think self will have a good game plan for him.

      • sporty says:

        You “could care less”? Like Marcus Smart is the only player that flops? It is the officials job to call legit fouls.

    • Gavin says:

      Sporty, I’m not sure you really understand how air quotes are supposed to be used.

      Anyhoo, I really don’t recall KU recruiting Smart. Which isn’t to say that we didn’t, just to say that I don’t remember. So I’m not that upset with him for picking OSU and I certainly don’t begrudge him his bliss for having done so. If he’s happy with his decision, I’m happy for him. He can have his happiness with Travis Ford and his spot on the all-NIT team and I’ll take KU winning another league championship and if he “score 30 on KU tomorrow”, good for him. That’s a nice consolation prize since he didn’t get any of the other things he stated as his reasons for coming back when he bypassed the draft and a surefire top-five pick last season.

      • Your friend and mine says:

        Sporty seems to be one of those MU fans (not all of you are that way) who has as his favorite team, anybody who has beaten KU, because his own university couldn’t pull it off all that often. I’ll bet he has a closet full of Bucknell, Northern Iowa and any other school that has beaten KU, tee shirts. It’s a sad existence.

        • sporty says:

          Not an mu fan. Believe it or not, people in this area are not all mu and ku fans. I don’t really care if ku wins or loses. I care about my team, that is it. I do care about supposed adults being total douche bags to a 19 year old kid. The world does not revolve around ku basketball. Of course, most ku “fans” disappear the rest of the year.

      • sporty says:

        Umm, what are you talking about? He used the term “could care less.” That is wrong. Unless, he could actually care less. Which would make his statement even more asinine. What don’t you understand? I don’t really care if you remember ku recruiting M. Smart or not, BTW, YOU didn’t recruit anyone. Ku did.

  10. Ron says:

    Soren is an elitist fraud. There are millions of college basketball fans who did not attend the school of the team they root for. Soren grew up in Kansas City and has lived here most of this life. Just because he attended Syracuse for four years doesn’t mean it’s impossible for him to have a favorite local team and root for them. The fact that he pretends he does not just shows he’s a fraud. Why does he think it would be wrong for him to root for a local team? It’s a cop out and done just to try and make himself seem different and better than other local sports talk hosts.

  11. Floyd says:

    KK, what a complete douche. Speaking about a business owner ripping a fanbase – ever since his epic rant/s against all things Nebraska in 2010, I’ve not listened to more than 10 combined minutes of his show. I know he’s somewhat of a “shock jock,” but the venom in such a personalized attack on an entire fanbase and state made me realize that I had no interest in helping him or his station make more money.
    I sure haven’t missed his inflammatory ignorance. I realize I’m somewhat behind on all the latest news from the Racin’ Boys, Smoke’N Fire, and the Cookie Diet, but I have Greg to keep me posted on all KK’s inanity.

  12. Kansas Marine says:

    The majority of 810 programming has turned into nothing more than shock-jock radio. Do yourselves a favor and turn the dial.

  13. Zed says:

    KK/810 also screws its listeners passing off info commercials as guests on the show. Racing boys, Smoke n fire, mavericks, sporting kc, golf shows, etc. are not “guests” on 810 shows. The pay 810 so they can advertise what they are selling and have info commercials about there products or teams.

    • Rico_suave says:

      yehh.. I remember back in the day – getting off work early on a fall Fri afternoon.. big football weekend coming up.. hit the radio for sports talk..and hearing..

      “it’s them Racin Boys!!” goobers..barf!!

      thank goodness for Sirius and for podcasts these days.. 810 a distant memory

      • BlackJack says:

        Oh c’mon, you ain’t fooling anyone. You all love to hate KK, and can’t get enough of 810, admit it. That’s why you people keep comenting with bated breath about KK’s show, time and again.

  14. Guy Who Says What Others Think says:

    For some reason on Saturday, I had 810 on and TJ Carpenter was discussing with one of his staff on air (an obvious KU homer) about the possibility of Danny Manning being hired at Mizzou after Haith. His staffer was adamant that Manning would turn MU down. Carpenter called him a fool, and stated if Mizzou came up with a 4 million dollar offer, Manning would leave skidmarks out of Tulsa for Columbia. I have to agree. Thoughts?

    • Zed says:

      I think a lot of MU fans would not want a KU guy and I don’t Danny would take the job. Not a great situation for him to go if a lot of MU fans don’t want him. Danny still needs to have a few more good years for a school to offer him big money.

    • Kyle says:

      Is Carpenter dumb enough to believe that anyone would offer Manning 4 Million per year? Good God, who hired this tool?

  15. Very overblown stuff. Any Missouri fan with a brain realizes there’s no way in hell that Self would still be at Missouri. He would be at Kentucky, or Oklahoma State, or elsewhere, and he would’ve been gone many years ago. So as much as non-Missouri fans might like to believe that we sit around losing sleep over a bad decision 15 years ago, it ain’t the case. I focus instead on a bad decision that was made a mere 4 years ago, when Alden hired Haith.

  16. Sam says:

    All you have to do is read between the lies a tiny bit to see that Petro is a KU apologist. He opened up his show today with his typical ferocious defense if Bill Self following a loss. Look, we all know he is a great coach, but Petro wants to annoint him as a saint by praising him for being sooooo honest. He bristles at the slightest insult of Bill Self. It’s the most extreme with Bill Self, but he certainly pulls for KU more in general than the other programs. In fact, I don’t think he pulls for MU at all, I think he roots against them. He bitches out MU fans who he disagrees with constantly in rants. His “Pimp Rant” in response to some stupid caller would make Bob Fescoe blush. He is a fat, angry jayhawk fan who went to Syracuse.

    • Sam says:

      And his opening defense of Bill Self’s character is now marching on beyond the half hour into the show…

      • Sam says:

        And he is now 45 minutes into his lobbying for a raise for Bill Self…

        • Sam says:

          And he just insinuated that Bill Self is possibly “saving lives” by taking players under his wing. What possible basis does he have for making this claim. Successful coach? Clearly. Mother Teresa? I don’t think so.

          • Sam says:

            And thus concludes hour 1 of Soren Petro’s canonization of Bill Self. As much as I get a perverse satisfaction out of hearing it, I don’t think I can bear listening to his 2nd and then likely 3rd and 4th hour of it.

  17. Matthew Neal says:

    I know this is nitpicking but Self was the Tulsa head coach when he interviewed at Mizzou, not the Illinois coach yet. He wouldn’t have considered leaving Illonois for Missouri

  18. Bend over KK says:

    Mizzou fan here ………We took the pretty boy, the assistant to the great Kryweshski over Bill Self! We F’d up that one didn’t we MU fans?
    Self was proven at Tulsa and went far into the tourney with an underdog team twice!
    We screwed the pooch on that one.

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